Cleaning of bottles, prior to using them

by **Gagginforit** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:49 pm

Hey all, i have been brewing pririts for a year or so, and have had the urge to make beer erecently, all ius going well, and i just dropped in the finnings yesterday, so i will bottle later this week.

I have a few questions, as this is different from what im used to. I'm used to syphoning the wash out, making sure not to disturb the sediments down the bottom. Now bottling the beer, i will be using the tap, that will surely suck out some sediments. Any tips for me here? Is it best to tilt the fermenter back a little? Should i try not to airate the beer going into the bottle?

Also cleaning/sanitizing bottles. I'm sure everyone has their own ideas/ways of doing this.

I rinse my bottles out with a bit of hot water straight after pouring. Then i put them in the dishwasher on about 80'c, then i will be putting them in a bucket(Fermenter) with some milton, then rinsing them out and using them.

What about bottle caps? Whats best with them? Same procedure? I thought about boiling them but that might damage the seal underneath.

I must admit, i have been pretty lazy on the spirits side of things. To the stage where i litterally just boiled water, then shook it around a bit inside the bottle, drained it, then rinsed it out afterwards, but i have always run them through the dishwasher first, and to date (Touch wood) i have had not had a single infection.

Cheers guys.

by **maheel** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:57 pm

grab a bottling wand, you can get them from kmart or brew shops etc
you can use a hose from the tap to the bottom of each bottle but then you need tu turn the tap on and off
the wand has a little dooby that stops the flow when you take the bottle away (to turn it on you push up with the bottle)

they fill from the bottom of the bottle so it's not splashing (oxidization) as thats bad for beer :handgestures-thumbdown:

you dont want any "air" in the beer. so try not to splash it etc in the bottle
i put my sugar in the bottle 1st then use a wand (but now i keg)

i use star san which is a no rinse sterlizer, another is the iodine based one often called idofor
if the bottles are clean then i just "rinse and shake" if they are dirty i soak with napisan prior and hot rinse them

by **maheel** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:02 pm

if you have a spare fridge put the whole thing in the fridge for 3 days at 3"c and it will clear up nicely and compact the yeast cake on the bottom

if not, just use a glass on the 1st bit from the fermenter and it should run "clear" with little yeast after the 1st 200ml or so.
i drink that bit :)

once you leave it in the bottle for 4 weeks and then fridge a few they get pretty clear and you can pour them to a jug / glass pretty clear
leaving the yeast in the bottle (dont glug glug pour them, just need a nice and smooth pour the whole bottle

i ferment all my beer in a temp controlled fridge (ales at 17'c) like this

using a controller like this (stc 1000)

so i can control the temp of the fridge to whatever i like

i have a ale in the fridge now :handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **Gagginforit** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:22 pm

I have a clear tube i used to bottle a trial bottle, it was pretty effective, but it wasnt super clear (As i expected) it was more so to test my capper/caps/clear tube. I will keep the bottle as my first beer ever bottled, and maybe drink it at the end of the year? Also, i dropped in my alcometer, i dont usually do this in my wash, but i figured it should work in my beer? Right? No, it didnt, it just registers 0. Is this normal?

by **maheel** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:29 pm

you need a hydrometer (for beer) to test the SG and FG of your beer
alco ones dont work... to much other stuff in there. they only work in ALC

that 1st bottle prob had the yeast from the tap area, pretty common on the 1st bit IMO

if you bottle to early your making bombs... FG final gravity should be the same over a few days before bottling to be safe

my process is to test today (mon) then wed and if the same i can bottle or keg, normally after i have tested it "finished" and now that i keg i cold crash it to 2"c for about 4-5 days then into keg and force carb it with co2.

by **Frank** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:09 pm

Hey Gag.....
+1 Maheels advice (of course). Re cleaning bottles, I keep a horsehair bottlebrush handy near the kitchen sink and (try to) make sure I give the empties a good rinse and brush before letting them drain and store. That way, there's almost never any nasties to deal with at next bottling. Don't forget that sunlight is a great steriliser too :handgestures-thumbupleft:...
and , if your using glass bottles, let the beer ferment out for as long as you can stand to wait (and then some, dont rely on the lack of airlock bubbling) prior to bottling; as well as doing SG tests as Maheel mentioned. IMHO, the only bad thing about homebrewing is if you bottle too early and have to deal with the potentially-nasty consequences :shock: :angry-banghead: :crying-yellow: Its a genuinely scary thing to have to 'disarm/defuse(?) beerbombs '. :oops:

by **Gagginforit** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:45 pm

Frank wrote:Hey Gag.....
+1 Maheels advice (of course). Re cleaning bottles, I keep a horsehair bottlebrush handy near the kitchen sink and (try to) make sure I give the empties a good rinse and brush before letting them drain and store. That way, there's almost never any nasties to deal with at next bottling. Don't forget that sunlight is a great steriliser too :handgestures-thumbupleft:...
and , if your using glass bottles, let the beer ferment out for as long as you can stand to wait (and then some, dont rely on the lack of airlock bubbling) prior to bottling; as well as doing SG tests as Maheel mentioned. IMHO, the only bad thing about homebrewing is if you bottle too early and have to deal with the potentially-nasty consequences :shock: :angry-banghead: :crying-yellow: Its a genuinely scary thing to have to 'disarm/defuse(?) beerbombs '. :oops:

As for the beer bombs, thats the reason why i bottled a trial bottle, Its been about 8 days at 20'c, its not really bubling anymore, the gravity has been the same for the past 2 days, it smells pretty good, and it tastes ok too! I will probly bottle wednesday, and i will check the gravity again....and probly once more prior to bottling.

i ended up picking up some brew san or whatever its called from the hbs today instead of milton. I really dont want to go to all this effort for a failure.

by **stubbydrainer** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:52 pm

boy oh boy
I had no idea beer was so hard to make, hats off to you guys

by **grumpthehermit** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:05 pm

G'day,

I go pretty basic on the bottle washing, I use the brewer bottle wash powder you buy from Woolies.

I fill up my laundry tub and pour some in then throw in 15 tallies as a time, let them soak then I mega blast them with one of these.

http://www.mybeerandwine.ie/images/washer.jpg

I bought some brass fittings and got this to plumb up on the spout of the laundry tub where the tiny swinging spout used to be.

I bought mine from a HBS, paid about 30 bucks for it 5 years ago, never had an infected bottle of brew, I have drank some that I have let sit for 3 years or more with no issues.

I have never washed the caps at all.

Cheers
GTH

:)

by **Frank** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:50 pm

Now THATS a bottle cleaner Mr Grump :handgestures-thumbupleft: and I've never washed caps either :think:

Anyway, Mr Gag another bit of unasked for advice about bottles and beer because I just remembered it ...be very careful about reusing screw cap bottles (particularly if you're putting caps on with a cheap 'hammer' capper) as the little glass thread on the neck is not 'built' for frequent reuse and :handgestures-thumbdown: ....well I reckon using crown seal bottles (COOPERS tallies are excellent because they are quality drinking to collect and are built to withstand secondary fermentation in the bottle) is a better idea IYKWIM ;-)

BTW, Mr Stubbs... making beer (even K&K :o ) is not at all hard to make nor particularly risky and please don't let this thread make you think so. Its just IMHO, I reckon if you employ a safety-first attitude then you are much more likely to always enjoy drinking them :handgestures-thumbupleft: That's what I do anyway :laughing-rolling: and its not at all diff to distilling in that regard.

(edit: spelling, yet again :oops: )

by **maheel** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:57 pm

stubbydrainer wrote:boy oh boy
I had no idea beer was so hard to make, hats off to you guys

lol

the hard part is just like well cut spirits IMO it's even harder to find a beer at the bottleo thats worth drinking once you start drinking really good craft beer.

"Hi I'm maheel. i am a beer / coffee / whiskey snob..." :oops:

by **Frank** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:04 pm

maheel wrote:....
the hard part is ...to find a beer at the bottleo thats worth drinking once you start drinking really good craft beer.
....

:laughing-rolling: Really good Cant Remember A F#cking Thing beer :laughing-rolling:
Mate THE 'hard part' is being able to go to the bottleo once you start drinking homies. ;-) :dance:

by **stubbydrainer** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:17 pm

hmmm, on sat. night whilst running a huge feints run with SBB here scoffing gin down, some neighbours came and also tested the rum/gin wares, then to preceeded to open a tallie of his own brew beer, well... I thought a bottle of Moet was opened , the roof was violently shot with the cap and everyone close got a shower of froth being trying to be stopped by a tight hand grip and a dash for the door, sorta made me think, fuck...I don't think that was supposed to happen :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

by **grumpthehermit** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:47 pm

Hell no,

Must have been bottled way too early or had too much sugar added to the bottle for carbonation before it was capped.

Danger-ar5e ...

Also,

With the bottle washer I linked, you push the bottle down and the hot water fires up the centre of it, you leave the tap on the whole time, just in case you can't tell from the pic.

:)

Agree Coopers bottles are the best, crown seal is the way to go, avoid screwcaps.

Regarding sediment, especially from the first bottle, I never poured out the first 200ml when bottling to avoid it, your going to get some settled out in the bottom of each bottle anyways, I have never been able to pick which bottle was the first one filled, they all come up nice and clear. I do have to be careful filling the last 3 bottles from 23L, gently tilting the fermenter forward with one hand while filling the bottle with the other hand.

if your filling bottles and they are foaming out over the top before they are full ,,, it's not ready yet ...

I brew my can brews ( woolies ) at 25c with a digi controller like the one pictured about for a week at least before bottling. If in doubt leave it another week, it won't hurt it, just make sure the airlock has enough water in it to not draw air back into the brew if you leave it sit.

Cheers
GTH

by **Apple-O-Me-Eye** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:22 pm

The way I clean and sterilise my beer bottles is water and heat. Just Stillin procured my access beer bottles ( about 100) and I kept my coopers longnecks (my favourites coz they're bigger and sturdier).

I scrub my bottles with warm tap water with a bottle brush attached to my cordless drill.

Drain them well upside down; I put them in a crate with a tea towl underneith. Then I stack them on their side in the oven at 210C for 10 minutes in batches. Ensure that they are mostly dry on the inside before putting them in or when you remove them and turn them right way up you'll have a rush of scalding steam (learn from my mistake people, it took plenty of beers to kill that pain). The easiest way to get the hot little bastards out I'd with a dry towel and a wooden spoon. Stick the spoon into the bottle and lift it up, steadying with the dry towel/ oven mitted hand and place them of a towel on the floor or a crate to cool.

*side note: don't place them on a lyno floor or on your wife's good towels I you want to sleep inside!
*second side note: if you're placing them on a towel on the floor, ensure that the towel is dry. If you place a hot bottle on a cold, wet towel you'll be cleaning up glass.

I don't like using mettabisulphate or similar bottle washes. I have friends that sware by it but I can still taste it in their brew and I think it contributes to their hangovers. I haven't tried iodine so I couldn't comment on it's use. I've been. Poking my bottles for years and have had only a few casualties through trial and error.

My fermenters I clean with unscented bleach. A quick scrub our with a scrubber, tripe rinse then let air for an hour or so for the Chlorine bleach residue to evaporate.

by **graybags** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi Gagginforit,

I made beer for 20 something years (still do from time to time) and eventually found if you wash the bottles twice in HOT tap water - as in the way it used to be before the safety police took over, now it is temperature limited so you can't burn yourself - either as you finish them at the time or after the session, and stand them upside down to dry on their own in a milk crate you will not have a drama. Hurts your hand a bit washing them for a few seconds (don't blame me - maybe this is why the safety police took over..), but beats the hell out of brushes and pink powders etc..

Others are already onto priming bottles before filling (decanting and bulk priming is even easier) and a filling wand - in my mind these are the secrets to yummy beer with minimal labour. Of course however needs HOT water from the tap...., I always reckoned germs and cockroaches wouldn't be bothered climbing into a clean upside down bottles so problem solved. It works for me.

by **crow** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:28 pm

I almost always used old crown top long necks some of these might have been laying in the scrub or on some flood plain for a hundred yrs so I always ran them through preserving jar sterilizer unit first . After that it was simply rinse them with in 24 hrs of emptying them

by **BackyardBrewer** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:04 pm

After a boiling water soak to remove crud i never need to hard scrub again. Each batch I use a no rinse sanitizer like Starsan. It's $20 but a bottle but will last a lifetime.

I never ever sterilise caps, just keep them in a ziplock bag.

You need a bottling wand of course and if you're really worried about sediment then google "racking to secondary" on a site like aussiehomebrewers.com.au and throw in some dissolved gelatine - its cheaper & easier than finings which are a home brew shop scam ;-)

I always rack a lager (never ales or stouts) and you would not believe the gunk that Racking and gelatine and 7 day wait drops out of your beer. Just sterilise the racking cube etc with your Starsan and you're golden!

by **vooharmy** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:37 pm

The first time I soak them in 'neo pink' overnight in my bath tub ( batches of 60). In the morning I scrub label off with scourer and use jet bottle washer and hot water. Place them on my bottle tree ready o use.

From there on it its a piece of cake! I use a jet bottle washer, with hot water then dunk on my bottle trees sanitizer. I'm pretty lazy when it comes to cleaning as I go, jet bottle washer cleans them up very well.

To be clear I only bother bottling my specialty brews, even that I'm considering as a waste of time. Kegs are gooood!!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

by **kelbygreen** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:56 pm

I keg but when I bottled I always (still do) have a fermenter or 2 sitting there full of sodium percarbonate mix, I rinse the bottles and throw them in the ferementer (well not throw slowly submerge or they will break :P) Then rinse and sanitize on the day, Now this is also good as you usually if you have it set up right will need a clean fermenter after you bottle.

Now I keg so anything that needs cleaning will get thrown in there unless it has something that will rust the sodium perc will rust things quick smart :P, For fermenters I hose all I can get out then fill with sodium perc mix within a hour almost all of the yeast will be eaten away and it can stay in there for 2 weeks no worries it can be used as sanitizing (would use a secondary method though) so nothing will grow in there and it eats away all organic material. I have never had a infection and never put a cloth in the fermenter to clean just a hose and that solution.

For keg I hose out, boiling water in the bottom shake the crap out it run it threw the lines and fill. the hot water sanitizes the keg so dont bother there plus its been sealed full of c02 only to be opened to clean. I do take them apart every 3-5 brews (as well as the taps and lines) and soak in the same solution as the fermenter, pull everything apart and half fill then you can tip it upside down in a bucket to cover the whole top easy as :D