Power Requirement vs Diameter

[warramungas]

I put this here as I didn't think a new thread was warranted.
I've been searching for the answer to my question here and in google but cant find it anywhere. Only found 1 post but wasn't sure how accurate it was.
Does each column size have a sweet spot? That's the place where power and output are at their optimum. There must be but power input isn't discussed too much on the larger columns. I read about multiple (in the tens of) 4" plates or larger diameter columns using massive quantities of power and I understand what happens if you overpower them. Smearing, flooding etc. But what happens if you're running a 6" on 4800 watts and one of your elements craps its daks?
Will it still run fine but slower? Have a higher purity etc? What sort of power is the usual for these larger columns.
This is just out of curiosity as I'll be getting a 4" 4 plate and understand 2400 to 4800 watts will be fine there. Boiler for its on its way now my bits from f*d have turned up.
Cheers.

[Zak Griffin]

The 'sweet spot' depends on more than just diameter... Number of plates, type of plates, efficiency of RC, ABV of wash, temperature of cooling water etc will all be a factor.

[warramungas]

The 'sweet spot' depends on more than just diameter... Number of plates, type of plates, efficiency of RC, ABV of wash, temperature of cooling water etc will all be a factor.

So how do the builders like mac know what range of juice or column size that'll be required? Surely it cant be a suck it and see kind of approach? Like here when the engineers get a brief for a bit of gear we want they get the requirements and design something to suit (or not which is usually the case :angry-banghead: ). No point having a 5000 liter boiler that can do 50kw and ordering a 4" 4 plate still. Or maybe we're starting to get into the serious side of thermal and fluid dynamics here beyond our portfolio.
I just thought for building hybrid type stills, say 8" (not me but seen some interesting ones on this forum) with half sieves and half caps there would be a clear way to figure out what elements to order for the average nuffy like me.
So people building these things will know what to expect before they buy a length of 8" pipe then find they cant supply the necessary power to run it.
Not knowing thing bugs me sometimes.

[WTDist]

The 'sweet spot' depends on more than just diameter... Number of plates, type of plates, efficiency of RC, ABV of wash, temperature of cooling water etc will all be a factor.

So how do the builders like mac know what range of juice or column size that'll be required? Surely it cant be a suck it and see kind of approach? Like here when the engineers get a brief for a bit of gear we want they get the requirements and design something to suit (or not which is usually the case :angry-banghead: ). No point having a 5000 liter boiler that can do 50kw and ordering a 4" 4 plate still. Or maybe we're starting to get into the serious side of thermal and fluid dynamics here beyond our portfolio.
I just thought for building hybrid type stills, say 8" (not me but seen some interesting ones on this forum) with half sieves and half caps there would be a clear way to figure out what elements to order for the average nuffy like me.
So people building these things will know what to expect before they buy a length of 8" pipe then find they cant supply the necessary power to run it.
Not knowing thing bugs me sometimes.

I dont know much about stills and power but it can be seen as the diameter increases 2 fold (2 times) the volume of plates increases 4 fold. Meaning a 4" column holds X volume and an 8" column holds 4X volume. If i had to make a guess i would say i would need to increase power nearly as much to make it worth while . say 4" needs 2.4kW, and 6" would need 4.8kW? maybe? i think someone using 6" told me they use somewhere in the 5kW range so maybe the bigger you go the more power you use on an exponential increase being 5kW range is more than 2 times. Hmm im not sure that makes sense to even me. Had a few drinks.

I dont know how collection rates work for larger stills, i do know 4" get around 2-2.5L/H and if you go to 6" that should be 225% more volume (going on my old excel spreadsheet) than the 4" on plates, again numbers are getting to me 8-} which makes it 5.4kW for a 6" which sounds close to what DBV mentioned actually

Perhaps 8" needs 9.6kW to run effectively? I dont know. Im drunk rambling on a computer at 11:56 on friday night :laughing-rolling: But hey maybe im not wrong :shock:

Hmm think tis time for bed 8-}

[MacStill]

FFS this thread was created to help people running 4" bubble cap columns, if a newbie read the crap dribbled in this thread they'd be as confused as fuck.

Keep it real will ya or start another thread :angry-banghead:

[warramungas]

Fair call and sorry about that mac. Guess this forum stuffs still a bit of a learning curve for me. First forum I've contributed to.
I'll be taking a hiatus from the site for a trip to Perth. I can hear the massive sighs of disappointment??? :think:
If your stores open next week I'll be in to hassle you for some 4" still bits!!!!!!!!!!!! Yaaaaaay!!! :happy-partydance:
Probably ask you some stupid questions in person too if you've got the time. :angry-banghead:

[Professor Green]

Perhaps one of the moderators can split your question off to a new thread?

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

[Zak Griffin]

Split the topic as per suggestion :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[scythe]

There would be a way to work ot all out and if someone else wants to do that more power to them.
What do you call a sweet spot?
Minimum input for maximum output of non-smeared product is my definition.
But it will all depend on the still, if you had 10 of the same still with the same wash you could work it out by trial and error in short order.
But the biggest issue will be picking the difference between the different take off rates.

Once the wash is boiling you only need minimal power to keep it going. So really high power is only required for getting up to temp.

You can probably run a 6" column on a single 2.4kW element but it would be fairly slow to boil.