Insulating a bubbler

[NFI]

Hi all
Just wanting to get an idea of when a column and/or boiler on these bubblers needs to be insulated and what the options are for insulation. I am running a Mac4SG on a milk can boiler wit twin 2400 elements so it’s all SS, I run it in a two car weatherboard garage come shed (it can be a little drafty with a northerly wind but it is fairy protected from these cold SW winds). I am a bit inland from the central coast of QLD but it has been unseasonably cold up here also.
So when is it:
• Essential (running a still outside I’d guess)
• Recommended
• Suggested
• Unnecessary
to insulate some (or all) of the still setup and what insulation would you recommend?
OR, what are the first signs from a still trying to tell you to get some insulation.

[BigRig]

I run my identical still outdoors in Brisbane under the pergola with no wind / cold protection and it is a PITA. I have actually given up running it in the cooler months, i make enough during warmer months to get me through anyway.

I looked in to the insulation thing and found it cheapest to use old towels or rags with masking tape, nothing fancy otherwise you can buy pipe insulation from clark rubber but you would have to cut to size and it aint cheap.

[NFI]

Thanks BigRig
Unfortunately I have not been able to get a drinkable product out of mine for months and I am still trying to trouble shoot the problem. Stocks are critical and I may need to go back to shop bought beer soon.
Can you give me a short summary of what the PITA issues were for you?
I am running a TFFV today so fingers crossed. I had a lot of stalled washes which is where my problem lies I hope ( my tank water has no buffering capabilities so the pH would drop out and stall )- I have made changers to the water profile and this lot ran from 1.064 to 0.992 without needing to be opened up or played with.
The insulating inquiry is clutching at straws really.

Cheers

[southern45]

I wrap a few thick beach towels around and over my 60L boiler for insulation, mostly because I think it makes it more efficient but I have no evidence to prove/disprove this. I figure less heat loss means a slightly faster boil time plus a more even running temp, and saves me a little $$ in electricity.

I do the same for my washes in the winter (plus a heat pad if it's really cold).

[Moonshyner]

My understanding is that a heat pad heats the very bottom of the fermenter and as the heat rises, is can carry some of the dead yeast flavour throughout the wash.

A heat belt can be positioned anywhere along the height of the fermenter....Better choice, insulation required.

A heat wrap heats the fermenter all around top to bottom....Insulation recommended, but not required.

[bluess57]

Have used -> https://www.clarkrubber.com.au/collections/insulation/products/11778-formshield
Wow it's more expensive now

[BigRig]

Thanks BigRig
Unfortunately I have not been able to get a drinkable product out of mine for months and I am still trying to trouble shoot the problem. Stocks are critical and I may need to go back to shop bought beer soon.
Can you give me a short summary of what the PITA issues were for you?
I am running a TFFV today so fingers crossed. I had a lot of stalled washes which is where my problem lies I hope ( my tank water has no buffering capabilities so the pH would drop out and stall )- I have made changers to the water profile and this lot ran from 1.064 to 0.992 without needing to be opened up or played with.
The insulating inquiry is clutching at straws really.

Cheers

Sorry mate only just saw this.

I have a large steel water tank for cooling and it sits in the shade and never heats up. Pergola has no sides so i am undercover but its in the open.

Icy cold cooling water and gale force winds plays havoc with heat up and reflux / passive reflux. So i have given up running in winter.

If your product is not drinkable it could well be your wash / mash and what your taste expectation is.

What spirit are you trying to achieve ? Vodka ?

[NFI]

Sorry mate only just saw this.

I have a large steel water tank for cooling and it sits in the shade and never heats up. Pergola has no sides so i am undercover but its in the open.

Icy cold cooling water and gale force winds plays havoc with heat up and reflux / passive reflux. So i have given up running in winter.

If your product is not drinkable it could well be your wash / mash and what your taste expectation is.

What spirit are you trying to achieve ? Vodka ?

I have mainly been doing Tffv, I ran the last one a couple of days ago and out of a 45 litre charge I have only kept 4 X 200ml cuts as semi drinkable out of say 6.1litre collecting down to 25%. I follow the "easy" method, heat up 4800w, back off to 2400w as heat comes up tees, full reflux, cut element to 200 volt then refluxed for 1 hour, slowly drip off fores 200ml, then take product at less than 2.1L/h in 200ml cuts (6+ mins/cut) until I taste tails, continue 200ml for a couple more then switch to 750 ml when I can see tails signs in the column. When I first got the still I was getting good results with tffv, tpw ,wbab then everything went to hell. As I said, I had some stalling issues but that last one ran well and I was disappointed at the end. I have put on another TFFV and a TPW hopefully I will have a better results.
Thanks

[NFI]

Have used -> https://www.clarkrubber.com.au/collections/insulation/products/11778-formshield
Wow it's more expensive now

Yeah a bit exy, just wish summer would hurry up. Just have to go with towels but thanks.

[BigRig]

Sorry mate only just saw this.

I have a large steel water tank for cooling and it sits in the shade and never heats up. Pergola has no sides so i am undercover but its in the open.

Icy cold cooling water and gale force winds plays havoc with heat up and reflux / passive reflux. So i have given up running in winter.

If your product is not drinkable it could well be your wash / mash and what your taste expectation is.

What spirit are you trying to achieve ? Vodka ?

I have mainly been doing Tffv, I ran the last one a couple of days ago and out of a 45 litre charge I have only kept 4 X 200ml cuts as semi drinkable out of say 6.1litre collecting down to 25%. I follow the "easy" method, heat up 4800w, back off to 2400w as heat comes up tees, full reflux, cut element to 200 volt then refluxed for 1 hour, slowly drip off fores 200ml, then take product at less than 2.1L/h in 200ml cuts (6+ mins/cut) until I taste tails, continue 200ml for a couple more then switch to 750 ml when I can see tails signs in the column. When I first got the still I was getting good results with tffv, tpw ,wbab then everything went to hell. As I said, I had some stalling issues but that last one ran well and I was disappointed at the end. I have put on another TFFV and a TPW hopefully I will have a better results.
Thanks

I can say with certainty the easy method guide on here is good as a guide for running a bubbler but does not work for us outdoor guys using a mac 4ssg. The defleg is too efficient for a 2400w element. You will more likely be needing 3000w then increase as you progress through the run.

I am guessing you are not getting a good enough rolling boil and therefore not getting a good enough reflux to "clean" the spirit up.

Next time try heating up with 4800w, when you feel heat in the 3rd tee back off to 3000w, leaving defleg in full reflux, you will eventually see drips, when you do, slowly (in increments) shut down the defleg until you get an unbroken 2mm or toothpick stream.

Some blokes talk about * litres per hour, forget that. Every wash and run is different. If you run it accordinging to numbers and figures online you will always struggle.

You will get a feel for your still and it's sweet spot, i would stick to that regardless of take off rate.

[NFI]

Thanks BigRig, I will give that a go in a week or two when these washes are ready.

Where I was running it there was good flow coming from the downcomers both in full reflux and when I was taking product. I had reduced the power in case I was previously pushing tails through early but that clearly did not help. One thing that I do notice is that my product stream is never very stable but tends to go through a repeating wave dribble, dribble, dribble, stream, stream, stream, dribble, dribble, dribble. It seems rhythmic but it has always run that way. I thought running a bit slow on take-off would not have a negative effect on the product just on the hip pocket so just live with it.

I have toyed with the idea of possible leakage around the plate(s), between plate and seal, but can’t find a lot of info about how that would affect the output or running of the still or a definitive test and what would constitute a pass or fail (fill the plate with water and let it sit, should it stay there all day, if it goes in say 30 mins would that still be a pass or is that a hard fail – I don’t know).

[B-Man]

If your wanting a neutral your better off running more power and having the defleg tuned to give you the stream you want rather than adjusting the defleg to suit your power.
I use 3600w and run at about 2.4L/hour for neutral and ~3L/h if I want a little flavour (but I do run fores and heads out alot slower first.)

[NFI]

If your wanting a neutral your better off running more power and having the defleg tuned to give you the stream you want rather than adjusting the defleg to suit your power.
I use 3600w and run at about 2.4L/hour for neutral and ~3L/h if I want a little flavour (but I do run fores and heads out alot slower first.)

Thanks B-Man