Are Plated Columns "All Rounders"?

by **crow** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:31 pm

gota be happy with that , now don't that beat the shit out of a detuned 3" bok for an all rounder ;-)

by **MR-E** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:31 pm

croweater wrote:gota be happy with that , now don't that beat the shit out of a detuned 3" bok for an all rounder ;-)

Can it do neutral, as an all rounder :?: I was recently told no :crying-blue:

by **LWTCS** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:51 pm

Get some more tees and charge yer boiler with 40%.........maybe can't get a strictly proper neutral with a single pass but you can definitely make a very good vodka with two passes.
Be mindful how ever that a dash is not a neutral rig.

by **MR-E** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:59 pm

LWTCS wrote:Get some more tees and charge yer boiler with 40%.........maybe can't get a strictly proper neutral with a single pass but you can definitely make a very good vodka with two passes.
Be mindful how ever that a dash is not a neutral rig.

That's what I've been told, so not an all rounder then.
They look super cool in S/S :mrgreen: gotta earn some brownie points :chores-laundry: :chores-mop: :chores-vacuum: :chores-mowlawn:
if I want to get one :think:

by **LWTCS** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:08 am

Or pull 3-4 tees off and install a packed section on top yer remaining tees.

by **MR-E** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:19 am

LWTCS wrote:Or pull 3-4 tees off and install a packed section on top yer remaining tees.

Cool, would centering rings/ring help as well :?:

by **LWTCS** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:25 am

All rounder???? Maybe not for some,,,,,but that has nothing to do with the fact that this rig will pull high 90s from a 10% boiler charge.
Plenty all rounder for me.

by **MR-E** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:44 am

LWTCS wrote:All rounder???? Maybe not for some,,,,,but that has nothing to do with the fact that this rig will pull high 90s from a 10% boiler charge.
Plenty all rounder for me.

Thank's, I stand corrected. :oops:

by **crow** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:03 am

LWTCS wrote:Or pull 3-4 tees off and install a packed section on top yer remaining tees.

or couldn't ya add 2 or 3 tees to achieve the same :D

by **R-sole** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:31 am

I guess we can split this question into three really...

1) Is Vodka the same as neutral spirits?

2) Are neutral spirits made with sugar washes ever going to be neutral or will they always have that sugar bite?

3) How many plates does it take to make Vodka, and how many to make neutral?

Assuming we are after a tasteless brew we will start with the cleanest wash we can get (maybe water sugar, dap, vitamins and some crushed bland grain like wheat for nutrients and a neutral distillers yeast) and then strip it to have a clean boiler charge of 40% low wines.

I'll let those who have actual experience with the plated stills report to these questions, but please state the number of plates, the type of plates and the amount of experience you have (many runs or just two ect) aiming for this.

Then address each question in your opinion and experience. :ugeek:

MyGuessIsAllOpinionsWillVaryPunkin

by **LWTCS** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:39 am

5Star wrote:MyGuessIsAllOpinionsWillVaryPunkin

Its really true....
I read a fella say he don't care what people say,,,,,,whiskey outta one of these bubblers is too thin.......Then there is another fella says likker outta one of these bubblers is too heavy (true story by the way).
Can always add a plate every so often if ya feel the need.....
Here in the states we got this Tito's voddy that says they distill 6x.. I like it. has a sweet quality as it has a bourbon grain bill as I recall,,,,,and Stillhouse's "moonshine" is also a a sweet grain bill at 4x distilled.......These bubblers can certainly make a a nice vodka if the 4-6 times distilled thing is what ya like..

by **stilly_bugger** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:00 am

5Star wrote:I guess we can split this question into three really...

1) Is Vodka the same as neutral spirits?

2) Are neutral spirits made with sugar washes ever going to be neutral or will they always have that sugar bite?

3) How many plates does it take to make Vodka, and how many to make neutral?

...

I'll let those who have actual experience with the plated stills report to these questions...

In all fairness, you don't need to own or run a plated column to answer questions (1) and (2).

by **R-sole** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:12 am

And yet still, no-one has stuck their neck out to answer any of them. 8-}

by **MacStill** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:19 am

5Star wrote:And yet still, no-one has stuck their neck out to answer any of them. 8-}

already answered no.3 ;-)

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1613#p21258

McStill wrote:I cant remember what the wash was, it would have been UJ or rum & single run, I rarely if ever run low wines in my bubblers.

6 plates isn't going to give you a true neutral IMHO, maybe a nice vodka though... but what is it you really want?

I've had runs go 95% for the hearts in a 5 perf plated column yet the flavour was really strong (good), for single runs and true nuetral I reckon you'll need 10 plates or a short packed column section with your 6 plater.

Something a lot of people overlook with these rigs is that they are essentially just a pot still for flavoured spirits, the pro's that use these to make azeo have a rectifying column they run in conjunction with the plated column.

No harm trying but I reckon I know where you'll end up :handgestures-thumbupleft:

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **stilly_bugger** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:05 am

5Star wrote:And yet still, no-one has stuck their neck out to answer any of them. 8-}

Okay, I was waiting on the all clear. I'm treading carefully at the moment.

Is Vodka the same as neutral spirits? No. Well, it depends. Eastern Euro vodka is very neutral (compared to rum, for example), but it is certainly not neutral in the strict sense. Flavours of the wash do come through. Sometimes they're brought through deliberately. By law, however, vodka sold in North America has to be “A neutral spirit so distilled as to be without distinctive character, aroma, taste or color” (ATF definition of vodka, quoted in Stone's 2001 Making Gin & Vodka). From memory, by law it also has to be carbon filtered, though I could be wrong about that. Home distilled vodka often is not strictly neutral, but it is vodka nonetheless.
Are neutral spirits made with sugar washes ever going to be neutral or will they always have that sugar bite? This is two questions: (a) Are neutral spirits made with sugar washes ever going to be neutral? and (b) Will neutral spirits made with sugar washes always have that sugar bite? I'm convinced the answer to (a) is 'No'. You always seem to get some flavour coming through, no matter how faint. That said, from experience I don't think neutral spirits made with sugar washes always have a sugar bite. I've made Tomato Paste Wash vodka that has had no sugar bite. (Strangely enough I refluxed it straight from the fermentor, so no low wines run, but it was crystal clear.) So the answer to 2(b) is 'No'.
Can't answer 3, which is the really important question.

by **Brigand** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:55 am

I've been reading that running a neutral spirit run in a plated column for a second time produces a fairly good product - so that may further complicate the answers

I'll give this a go when I get organised and set some first run product aside for comparison and re-run the balance

Cheers

by **crow** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:02 pm

See now this where personal opinions come in because just to kill time I took a 95% spirit from a TPW wash and reran and re cut it and Both hydrometers said it was 96% and I couldn't taste a damn thing cept maybe the slight sweetness of ethanol , certainly nothing like sugar and it was devoid of any smell

by **ChefRo** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:16 pm

I have only done a few runs with the new rig. When I ran a wash by its self (13% aprox) I got it pulling at 92%. When I ran a wash with feints from another run it came off at 94%. Last night I ran a low wines and wash (30%) and it came off at 95+%.10 l in aprox 3 hours.
The later two made an excellent neutral, I don't think I will need another bit of stilling equiptment. My burbon wash is now ready to run, think I might take a plate or two out. And get a gin basket sorted for the handbrake.
I am sure with a few more runs under my belt this thing could do any thing I wanted.

by **stilly_bugger** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:30 pm

croweater wrote:...I couldn't taste a damn thing cept maybe the slight sweetness of ethanol...

Your 'Yes' in answer to 2 seems to be the same as my 'No'. But if the only taste coming through is the sweetness of ethanol then no wash -- sugar based or otherwise -- is going to be strictly neutral. I'd have to agree with that.

by **MR-E** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:19 pm

ChefRo wrote:I have only done a few runs with the new rig. When I ran a wash by its self (13% aprox) I got it pulling at 92%. When I ran a wash with feints from another run it came off at 94%. Last night I ran a low wines and wash (30%) and it came off at 95+%.10 l in aprox 3 hours.
The later two made an excellent neutral, I don't think I will need another bit of stilling equiptment. My burbon wash is now ready to run, think I might take a plate or two out. And get a gin basket sorted for the handbrake.
I am sure with a few more runs under my belt this thing could do any thing I wanted.

That's the type of experimenting I wanted/want to try, glad to hear you had good results :handgestures-thumbupleft: