Are Plated Columns "All Rounders"?

[olddog]

None that I can find.

+1

[Brigand]

Hi fellas

Thought I'd write up some notes. Ran my dash 2 on the weekend with 40L of stripped WPOSW @ 40% with all 6 plates in.

The product came out at high 93% to low 94%. When watered down tonight and compared to product from my VM it was not as clean. I was taking off at 2.5L/hour.

The product was fairly neutral but not as neutral as my VM. Though I'd be happy to use it in the majority of products I make with neutral.

I'm gonna water it down and run it through again and compare to my VM product and some non rerun product.

Also just another question. I found my % output did not seem to vary with changes to the heat input and reflux. But rather it was close to the curve and predicted output here http://homedistiller.org/theory/refluxdesign/steps .

When people say they achieved 95% with a plated column is that true or is it an indication of a high % neutral? If it is possible what would be stopping me achieving it?

From my reading and playing with calculators it does not appear to be possible without 13 theoretical plates.

Cheers

[LWTCS]

If that was your fist run,,it may be premature To draw conclusions other than it is not a VM.
Fresh water or recirc pump?
Time spent equalizing?
Power To RR?
Downcomer adjustments?

[MacStill]

From my experience I'd say you had a perfect run from 6 plates, it's not a neutral column but can make a decent vodka :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[R-sole]

Looking forward to hearing all your results mate. the more data we have on these things the better. Here's hoping the third run will be the winner.

[Brigand]

Fresh water or recirc pump?
Time spent equalizing?
Power To RR?
Downcomer adjustments?

Hi Larry

I was recirculating from a 1000L tank. I equalised for an hour.

I had the power dialled in @ 2200W. I found that @ ~2800-3500W the dephlegmator did not knock down all the vapour and a reasonable stream was coming out. I do have a thin camping mat around my keg boiler.

I have the dephlegmator plumbed with cold in the bottom as a top feed was giving me grief with purging the air.

At 2200W I had fairly vigorous bubbling and about 50ml of distillate was collected even with the dephlegmator at full bore over the hour. The cooling water was at 15*C that morning.

I have the down comers at 20mm above the plates. Is this correct?

After equalising I bled heads at 2 drops per second for an hour and then opened up to 2.5L per hour and increased temp to 2400W. After a while of pulling below 95*C I increased power to various settings between 2400 and 3600W while maintaing 2.5L with the dephlegmator but there was no visible change in what the alcometer read.

Is there anything glaringly wrong with how I'm running it?

Cheers

[LWTCS]

Hmm,,, sounds like you are doing what needs to be done.

Adjustments will not register immediately,,,,,,,,but beyond that it does sound like you are running well within the parameters of most operators out there.

Have you tried adjusting your downcomers as high as they can go? And also a slow heat up?

[Brigand]

I will try adjusting the downcomers this weekend when I re-run the batch

So are saying this sort of height?



I have them at this level currently



I have found some of Harry's comments re: heights here http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... =61&t=6327

Is it ok to have such a large bath on each plate?

Thanks for your assistance

Cheers

[LWTCS]

If the liquid level is too low, it is possible that the bubble action around the cap can blow the liquid back away from the cap enough to create a 'Dry" spot and that of course can cause some vapor to bi-pass the liquid bath. And that can mean you could loose phase change cycles during your run..Harry has video that demonstrates that this can happen if run too hard for the liquid level on the plate...... But if you let the liquid level build too high and the plate/chamber gets overwhelmed/flooded by running to hard and may puke up into the plate/chamber above,,,,,,,and you loose phase change cycles again.....

As for deeper liquid bath in general,,,,it is my opinion that a deeper volume of liquid allows the system (plate level) to be more capable of absorbing heat as the liquid on the plate has a first priority of condensing in coming vapor.....And if it is to condense vapor it is cooling . Deep liquid creates a lag that keeps any given alcohol chappy on the plate longer.
This lag cooling action,,,or greater cooling capacity on the plate should also relieve some of the burden placed on your dephleg and get you to the 100% reflux IMO.
Well,,,,,test that out and see do she do.
Cheers :pray:

[Brigand]

Thanks!

It's all starting to make sense now \:D/

Cheers

[Brigand]

Alrighty

Pushed the down comers all the way up and fired it up

Was able to pull ~95% :D this slowly dropped as the run progressed to high 94%

I ran at @ 2700W, running hotter didn't seem to affect output %

The actual product is really clean. Still not as clean as my VM but more than acceptable as a neutral

Thanks for the assistance

Cheers

[grehund]

Hi All,

Looks like this thread has been slightly hijacked, so I'll keep it brief.

Ran my Dash-1 with TPW yesterday. I tried to run it as high an ABV as I could on the first run, but it bounced all over the place (89% <-> 50%). I think doing a stripping run first is a better idea.

Good info from LWTCS and Brigand, I too will try pushing my downcomers right up and switching my dephleg coolant in/out (think I'm having same issues there).

[emptyglass]

Hi All,

Looks like this thread has been slightly hijacked, so I'll keep it brief.

Ran my Dash-1 with TPW yesterday. I tried to run it as high an ABV as I could on the first run, but it bounced all over the place (89% <-> 50%). I think doing a stripping run first is a better idea.

Good info from LWTCS and Brigand, I too will try pushing my downcomers right up and switching my dephleg coolant in/out (think I'm having same issues there).

I don't think a stripping run is the answer, not in bubbler land.
Air in the deflag won't help. Get that sorted first.
These things dont need as much heat as you may first think. Try dropping the heat back before you reach boiling point. Then leave it alone to do its thing. Then try next run at different heat, and see if better or worse. Adjust habbits accordingly. Will take a few runs.
Once you have it sussed, then you can re-run it for a neutral-ish drink, or single run for flavor

Hows that for a back on topic segway?

[MR-E]

Hi All,

Looks like this thread has been slightly hijacked, so I'll keep it brief.

Ran my Dash-1 with TPW yesterday. I tried to run it as high an ABV as I could on the first run, but it bounced all over the place (89% <-> 50%). I think doing a stripping run first is a better idea.

Good info from LWTCS and Brigand, I too will try pushing my downcomers right up and switching my dephleg coolant in/out (think I'm having same issues there).

How has this tread been hijacked :?: I thought members were supposed to report results of there runs :?: the info shared here will help
other members get the best from there plated stills, whether its a shiny dragon or a hand built piece of copper art :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[LWTCS]

Was able to pull ~95% :D this slowly dropped as the run progressed to high 94%

Remember now,,,at any point (if you feel like spending the time to do so) you can throw your rig back into reflux mode and let the thing stack some more of the most volatile material at the top again...

I don't think a stripping run is the answer, not in bubbler land.
Air in the deflag won't help. Get that sorted first.
These things dont need as much heat as you may first think. Try dropping the heat back before you reach boiling point. Then leave it alone to do its thing. Then try next run at different heat, and see if better or worse. Adjust habbits accordingly. Will take a few runs.
Once you have it sussed, then you can re-run it for a neutral-ish drink, or single run for flavor

Really good point and should be dually noted.....but one point about this I'd like to mention. Often we see new Bok owners struggle to achieve 95% even though their equipment is sized and appointed to do so..
Remember:
input = vapor
vapor = reflux
more input = more vapor
more vapor = more reflux
more reflux= more cycling
more cycling = more purity

As long as you don't push too hard and push tails right up into your drink....and that's why EG's recommendation is valuable,,,,just a step at a time to insure that you are getting the best possible results for your own point of view.....IMO. And remember that your point of view may be temporary!

[grehund]

More good info guys, thanks. Doing a run right now.

Mr E. The topic is "Are plated columns "All Rounders"", but the topic was moving towards "Problems I'm having running my plated column". ;-) That's all.

[Sam.]

So plated columns are close enough to all rounders as long as you can have as many plates as you like and the spirit through as many times as you like? :think:

[cereal_killer]

Slight tangent....

would owners and users of plated stills say that rather than one timers (pot stills), that if you can find the sweet spot in regards to plates, that you could do a triple distilled in one go... so retainted flavour on the way to high abv., rather than high proof without tones of the wash seeping through?

Im pure noob, but the goal is a Scotch or Irish whiskey, clean and mellow like Jamesons.... can enough plates attain that, rather than chasing a neutral, in one go???

[Sam.]

Slight tangent....

would owners and users of plated stills say that rather than one timers (pot stills), that if you can find the sweet spot in regards to plates, that you could do a triple distilled in one go... so retainted flavour on the way to high abv., rather than high proof without tones of the wash seeping through?

Im pure noob, but the goal is a Scotch or Irish whiskey, clean and mellow like Jamesons.... can enough plates attain that, rather than chasing a neutral, in one go???

Pretty sure this is the main reason these dudes run the plated stills or bubblers, to get a high abv but still a lot of flavour carried over

The idea of making nuetrel through them is just a handy by product.

[cereal_killer]

Pretty sure this is the main reason these dudes run the plated stills or bubblers, to get a high abv but still a lot of flavour carried over

The idea of making nuetrel through them is just a handy by product.

So are you saying the equivalent of a triple distilled can be attained by a singles run? If so, why would some cliam to fame triple distilled?