stilllearning's Glasser Build

Perforated & bubble cap plated columns

Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby WTDist » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:36 pm

2 more glass sections and you will have a 10 plater for vodka :O) hows those caterpillar socks :laughing-rolling:
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby EziTasting » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:41 pm

stilllearning wrote:Of course, I wouldn't have had a hope in hell of doing any of this without a place like this and all the knowledge it contains.


I'm with you (except the building part!) we only built the boiler and havent stopped testing and playing with the Tried and Proven recipes... Even had a go at an AG even if it didn't work out as we had hoped!

Now we're still testing and learning and will continue to do so!

Keep up the good work.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:21 pm

Indeed, playing and tweaking is half the fun! The main reason I decided to go with this type of still straight up is beause I really find the designing, drawing, tinkering and building to be hugely satisfying. For me, the alcohol at the end is the bonus - all the work up till this point has been equally intoxicating!

Had a massive weekend playing with my bubble caps, in total I probably only spent around 4-5 hours actually doing work on them in between family and work comittments, but it felt like I spent the entire weekend on them anyway.

I've gone with a "handmade" version of the FSD bubblecaps. This was discussed a bit in CaptianRedBeards build log a little while ago - see here for the details, but is basically a 1" off-the-shelf end cap over a 3/4" flared riser.
I went for a screwed bubble cap because earilier in the build I had a fair amount of drama getting good results with soldered ones. A screwed system is a fair bit more work, but I'm much happier with the results. I should mention that my original soldered version was done with a propane torch - I've since invested in a decent, trigger-ignition MAPP torch. I've had much better soldering results since, so maybe if I attempted the same soldered caps now I might have a different opinion.

Anyway - this was the original concept;
exploded.jpg


Made up the risers, they take around 6 minutes each. I have 30 caps all up so around 3 hours all up. Mounted about a foot long length of 3/4" in the lathe (mainly just using it as a vice). Squared up the end of the pipe with a file, flared the end, measured out the total length I wanted, marked all around with a scribe while manually turning the lathe, then cut with a hacksaw while manually turning the lathe. Rinse and repeat. Not hard work at all, although the lathe I'm sure makes things a bit easier. Even just having it to hold the pipe while you mount the flaring tool is a bonus, and unlike a normal vice it's very hard to distort the pipe if you over-tighten it a little - the headstock of course being designed to hold round objects without damaging them. Drilling holes dead centre is obviously a shitload easier on a lathe too.

IMG_0828reduced.jpg


Once I'd finished cutting and flaring them all, I checked the measurements with the verniers and filed a bit off the top to bring them down to an exact length. In my case I was aiming for 21.6mm. I wanted them just a fraction shorter than the inside of the cap, so that they would pull tight with the bolt. Then I soldered them to pieces of scrap left over from cutting my main plates.

IMG_0830reduced.jpg


Separated them all using a cutting disk on the angle grinder and a pair of decent pliers to keep my fingers out of the way. The one on the left is before filing and finishing on the lathe, the one on the right is all done including a 3mm hole in the centre to take the bolt.

IMG_0833reduced.jpg


Found that even though I'd allowed for the thickness of the soldered plate in my measurements, I had to re-flare each riser just a couple more turns before they would pull tight when bolted.
I ended up using 316 stainless hardware, an M3x25mm bolt, with a flat washer above the cap, and a split washer and nut under the riser. With the split washer, you almost don't need a tool to tighten them, just something small enough to stick up the riser and stop the nut spinning until the split washer bites - then if you turn the cap itself you can make everything tighten pretty good without having to use an allen key on the bolts. All the gear came from http://www.boltsnutsscrewsonline.com/ and was around $40 inc. delivery.

All finished, just need to cut slots in the risers and caps which I will hopefully get to next Saturday. I'd like to do my vinegar run next Sunday if all goes well. Still got to do my downcomers but these will be soldered so should be a fair bit more simple.

IMG_0831reduced.jpg


Also, throughout this whole build I've kept records of all my costs. Now that I'm getting to the pointy end and I'm pretty confident I've got everything to finish this thing, I'm going to post up all my expenses in the next little while. I'd seen it asked a couple of times over the last year or so how much it realistically costs to build something like this, this might be useful to others in the future in deciding whether to build or buy. Stay tuned.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:05 pm

Another busy weekend,

Finished cutting all the risers out, then on to the lathe to be rounded and cleaned up with a file. Final step was to drill a 3mm hole. Spent the rest of the arvo making cut templates and sticking them on, ready to be slotted next weekend.

IMG_0841reduced.jpg


Caps have 24 1x5mm slots, risers have 12 2x7mm (2mm extra to allow for the plated end) slots.

IMG_0844reduced.jpg


Had some time to run the pot today, punched through 8L vinegar with 8L water, I was super impressed with the boil up even though this was only a smallish charge. Managed to find 2 separate power point circuits in the house to run each element, so kicked it in the guts with 4.8kw and literally watched the thermo needle climb to 94 degress. Took around 20 minutes to get to temp. Switched off one element and ran for around an hour - then the trouble started.

Noticed a small drip around the triclamp at the top of the condenser. At first I thought it was my special fat gasket playing up, but then had a close look and it was a hairline crack in the end ferrule / plate. The solder is only very thin here, as I made this part on it's side and the solder flowed by gravity to the other side. No problem, shut down, dismantled and then brushed on some solder and gave it a whack with the torch, got a nice fat fillet around it. Sweet. Re-fitted the hose connectors, connected the hoses and gave it a hit with full pressure to check for leaks. None around the crack.

Then discovered I had unsoldered one of the vapor tubes. Pinprick of water spraying from it, which I know wasn't there before because I leak tested it when I made it originally.

Took 3 goes of soldering, not including fixing the end plate to get it sealed up again. 2 hours lost give or take. This photo was after attempt #2.

IMG_0853reduced.jpg


Got it sorted in the end, flap wheeled it flat again, super carefully so I didn't bust it, tried under full mains pressure and all good.

Started up again and ran the vinegar through for about another hour, so say 2 hours total. Was that enough or should I go again? all the vinegar that came out was pretty clear.
Getting ready to strip 100L of TPW in a couple of weeks, followed by a plated run when I get the caps finished.

IMG_0851reduced.jpg
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby Zak Griffin » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:03 pm

This is why I'm going to hard solder my condenser internals! Glad you got it sorted.

You'll need to do another vinegar run and a sacrificial alcohol run once you put the whole column together anyway ;-)
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:06 am

I figured that I might need to go again with the vinegar when the plates are all done, but this vinegar run was enough to clean the pot out so I can strip in a couple of weekends time, right?
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby Zak Griffin » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:06 am

It's pretty well accepted that you need to do a quick sacrificial alcohol run after a vinegar run. You'll see why when you see the color of the first litre or so that comes out!

If you've got 100L of TPW ready to go, just start with 20L of it in the boiler for your sacrificial run :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby maddogpearse » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:05 am

Zak Griffin wrote:If you've got 100L of TPW ready to go, just start with 20L of it in the boiler for your sacrificial run :handgestures-thumbupleft:

And keep what you collect, clearly marked as cleaning run. You'll use it again ;)
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby WTDist » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:58 am

maddogpearse wrote:
Zak Griffin wrote:If you've got 100L of TPW ready to go, just start with 20L of it in the boiler for your sacrificial run :handgestures-thumbupleft:

And keep what you collect, clearly marked as cleaning run. You'll use it again ;)

:text-+1:

I always reuse my cleaning run collection for next cleaning run
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:39 am

Roger that, thanks guys.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:28 pm

Another big weekend just gone, finished off all the caps.

Made up a rig to cut all my slots, mounted the dremel on to the end of the lathe bed (turned the lathe back to front so the dremel was throwing away from me) and used the drill press with a spare M3 bolt and nut to hold the cap in place. Super fast and gives nice, consistent cuts. I was turning the drill chuck and holding it in each position with one hand, and the other to raise/lower the chuck.
For anyone using a dremel - ditch the heavy duty cut off wheels, the ones that come in a round 20 pack container and get yourself the EZ Lock spindle and the matching cut off disks. On my previous slotting attempt a few months ago, I was going through a heavy duty disk every 2 caps or so... with the EZ lock ones, which have a bigger diameter and seem to have a proper reinforcing mesh embedded in them, I managed to do 30 risers and 30 caps with around 2.5 disks.... that's 24x30 slots on the caps, and 8x30 cuts into each riser = 960 cuts. Well worth the investment, buy them in a kit if you can, you can get the spindle, disks and a few other goodies for the price of the spindle alone that way.

IMG_0865reduced.jpg


Got all my caps cut no worries, then when I went to cut the risers as I had planned, found that the cut was not deep enough to make a decent opening through the copper and the small fillet of solder on the inside of the riser. Going any deeper would have killed my bath height and the cuts would have probably come very close to each other on the top of the riser, making the bolt hole very weak.

IMG_0866reduced.jpg


Changed to a horizontal arrangement, cut these out with the EZ lock grinding wheel, which is 2mm thick, and did 2 cuts side by side for a total of 4mm tall, by about 10mm wide. 4 openings per riser. This still wasn't deep enough to break open the hole, but the copper was paper thin so I came back with a carbide cutting bit and opened them up with the dremel later on. Pretty happy with the results.

IMG_0867reduced.jpg


IMG_0873reduced.jpg


This had the added side effect of having more open area than the vertical slot design, did not weaken the top of the riser, and lifted the opening around 1-2mm higher up the side of the riser, giving slightly better bath depth.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:02 pm

Spent the evening last night assembling everything, each cap is made up as - M3 Bolt - washer - cap - riser - split washer - nut. All 316 stainless. A bit fiddly, need long nose pliers to hold the nut all the way up into the riser, once tightened up they are rock hard. I screwed them home then went one more crank on the allen key and didn't have any risers let go.

My downcomers are just a long version of the riser, with no flare and no end plate. To solder them I just stood the pipe in a cap, dropped in a couple of bits of solder and then heated all in one go. Easy as.

IMG_0871reduced.jpg


IMG_0874reduced.jpg


So, apart from a parrot which I will build in a few weeks when uni finishes, I'm gonna call this baby all done for now. Got the 100L of TPW ready to go so I'm planning on maiden flight next weekend.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby maddogpearse » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Dude. For a young bloke you're a bloody handy copper artist!
That's a shit hot rig!
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby rumdidlydum » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:43 pm

Well done mate thats a work of art, you should be proud of what you have built :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby woodduck » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:53 am

Bloody beautiful mate, well done. :clap: :clap: :clap:

She'll be your pride and joy for years to come.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby WTDist » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:11 am

Nice work. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Been a long time coming im surprised your not itching to get onto it ASAP.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby stilllearning » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:21 pm

Thanks very much for the compliments guys, not long to go now till I can kick back and enjoy...

Like any good long-term relationship though, we're having a few disagreements at the moment - Ran some water tests last night and;

IMG_0876reduced.jpg


Now, I'm not overly worried about the glass, all the leaks are on the left, and seem to get worse the higher up the column you go. Am I right in thinking this is just the weight of the PC pulling the left rods into tension and opening up the seals a smidge?? If so I was thinking I'll just slowly charge the column with water again while I tighten the nuts one by one until the leaks stop. I should mention that I had only finger tightened the "downwards" nuts, brought up the "upwards" nut and then used a pair of opposing spanners to tighten them home against the plates. Now I'm thinking that I should spanner the downwards nuts tight until the leaks stop, then bring the upwards nuts home against the plate and tighten as before. Thoughts??

If you look closely at my 4" triclamps, the ones either side of the RC are dumping water like there's no tomorrow too... I think this might be the downfall of the end plate/easy flange design. While they pull tight no problem and are rock hard, it seems they don't put enough pressure on the seal to make a watertight joint. The clamp between the packed section and the column, and the column / keg don't seem to leak, these are "proper" easy flanges. Although it was a bit hard to tell what was leaking and what wasn't with so much water running down the column...

I've ordered another 5x 4" EPDM gaskets from FSD, I'm hoping that doubling the seals up solves my problems...

Anyway, just a minor setback. On the upside the condenser plumbing was perfect - no leaks whatsoever.
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby WTDist » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:32 pm

:scared-eek:

wow...wow

yea man, with ordering those seals that would be a good way to go rather than adding stress to the glass although it wouldnt hurt to tighten them a bit more on the leaking side. Adding some more seals will be safer though. will you double up all the saels that are leaking? must be over 12?
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby Dig Brinker » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:32 pm

Glad you tested outside!!! You could maybe solder some copper wire around the flanges to bulk it up a bit for the tri clamps to fit. Hope the double seals work for you :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: stilllearning's Glasser Build

Postby maddogpearse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:53 pm

When I tightened my glasses I nipped up opposing nuts in a star pattern until I couldn't turn the glass. Seemed to work ok.
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