Figs

[crow]

Yep I'm with you, in hindsight I think I pushed mine way to hard (15% on some washes) and had the problems you get with such high yields (1/3 faints, off flavours ect) I can tell you DO NOT attempt to use bread yeast it is fucking gross and really down graded my low wines, I thought of turfing this was and now deeply regret not doing so. :puke-huge:
test the SG (not easy I know) or just taste test. It is likely you will want some sugar but I would think 1/2 of what I used would suffice :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[BackyardBrewer]

Ok good advice, not quite enough figs this run for 200L but certainly another 100L wash in the tree ripening now.

I have 2 x EC1118 packs of yeast each will do 100L so no bakers here.

FYI figs in the shops are 4 for $3.95 - a dollar a fig!

Fig me!
:-)

[BackyardBrewer]

I have an easy 32kgs of figs sitting on pectanaise & campden tablets overnight.

Tomorrow (will be 37° in SA!!!!) I add 6kgs of sugar and enough wine yeast (EC1118) to do 100 litres so I think I'll aim for no more than 90-95 litres total.

That's enough for 2 runs in the 50l keg.

Any thoughts on if I push more water and sugar into that?

[crow]

hmm you've already added the pectinase ok. this was in fact some very bad advise I received. pectinase breaks down the pectin which in then turned into methanol (more faints)

[BackyardBrewer]

Are you serious? My research told me pectanaise actually reduced methanol by making the sugars more accessible for the yeast? I can't find the link but my reading was that the yeast would convert that to usable sugar for ethanol booze:(

[invisigoth]

as far as i know, methanol is in the fruits fright from the get go before they have had a single whiff of yeast. additional methanol can be formed from the breakdown of pectin. keep your yeast stress free fat and happy and the risk is reduced. i've read claims that using pectinase reduces additional methanol and that it increases it. so far the most credible paper i've read was this one:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/agriculture/pdf/books/a_study_on_the_possibilities_to_lower_the_content_of_methyl-alcohol_in_eau-de-vie_from_fruit.pdf

[crow]

pretty sure it was dnderhead from HD that told me pectinase will increase methanol production will have a check now

[BackyardBrewer]

as far as i know, methanol is in the fruits fright from the get go before they have had a single whiff of yeast. additional methanol can be formed from the breakdown of pectin. keep your yeast stress free fat and happy and the risk is reduced. i've read claims that using pectinase reduces additional methanol and that it increases it. so far the most credible paper i've read was this one:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/agriculture/pdf/books/a_study_on_the_possibilities_to_lower_the_content_of_methyl-alcohol_in_eau-de-vie_from_fruit.pdf

That is 168 pages of well researched and detailed heavy reading - care to summarise?

Also when you say "stress free" I'm looking at a week of 35° + and 37° tomorrow so ... Kind of pushing the definition of "stress free" yeast
;)

[crow]

damn it just spent an hr looking for it thought it was in a thread I posted in but maybe not or maybe I missed it but I'm sure dnderhead or another eminent mind said pectinase in wash is not a good idea if it can be avoided as it increases the production of methanol, was sure I said oh damn because I was advised to use it But do ya think I can find it now :roll:

[invisigoth]

That is 168 pages of well researched and detailed heavy reading - care to summarise?

ok... don't use pectinase, don't put feints back into the next run, don't stress the yeast, keep the final abv below 12% and don't let the wash wait around to clear before running it.

interestingly, their gas chromatograms defy what is considered conventional wisdom in that they found that an azeotrope is formed with a higher bp and that the methanol is in the tails, not the heads. they also cite other papers to back this up. now every man and his dog swears black and blue that the methanol is in the heads, and you can tell this by the burn when you are doing your cuts. i've seen gas chromatograms from a paper linked off the hd parent site showing methanol in the heads for whisky. <shrug> maybe the fruit wash matrix is different. :think:

Also when you say "stress free" I'm looking at a week of 35° + and 37° tomorrow so ... Kind of pushing the definition of "stress free" yeast
;)

yeh well i'd call that close to terminal. most of my fermenting is done between 19 and 25c... the advantage of being in a position to brew in the house :teasing-neener:

[crow]

Methyl alcohol is in heads because the boiling point is lower than ethyl alcohol
The boiling point of methanol is 65' centigrade ethanol is 78.37 so for that reason alone methanol will always be restricted to late fores early heads the only exemption to this would be a pretty bad case of smearing , if it was present in your tails you have somehow smeared right across the entire run and would need to re run the whole lot (after you investigated why ;-)

[BackyardBrewer]

Ok I can't take the pectinase out (already added it when I posted) but I am thinking I might have to split this over a heap of the smaller fermenters and keep inside, it's too hot in the shed already and another hot week coming up.

The missus will not let me put the 200L back in the laundry unfortunately:-)

[BackyardBrewer]

Thanks for the advice, you've made me paranoid I'm now making methanol poison, :-) but the figs are split into four 20L lots in the laundry, with the EC1118 wine yeast added.

Had to get it down ASAP, no shed work today, it's sweltering outside already.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361573289.895725.jpg

The dark black/red skins have already given up their colour, they were all very ripe almost black - this looks like under ripe sludge but trust me they were all very ripe. Perhaps that's the pectinase?

[invisigoth]

Thanks for the advice, you've made me paranoid I'm now making methanol poison, :-) but the figs are split into four 20L lots in the laundry, with the EC1118 wine yeast added.

i wouldn't worry too much. the amount of methanol is still fairly small and you'd be getting rid of that with your cuts. all the hype you hear about methanol poisoning is from deliberate methanol spiking. :law-policered:

[BackyardBrewer]

Anyone see any problems with me doing incremental additions of fresh figs to each of the fermenters?

Suspect that the wash will be very low abv% because of the nearly all fruit wash (only added 4kgs of sugar total- one kg per fermenter) and I think I that as the heat in SA is ripening the figs erratically I can add about 500gms-900gms a day across the fermenters.

As the pectinase is already in there I figure that the more fruit added the better.

In beer brewing incremental additions like yeast, hops, sugar or malt is pretty common so I think adding figs (with a quick rinse in metabisulphite) over the next few weeks will add more fruity flavour and a hint more food for the yeast.

Any thoughts?

[crow]

yeah not sure I would go super low with the sugar . As for the way they ripen a few at a time I think that's just the way they are pity I did't still live in SA I got 2 chest freezers and I only need one I just give one to ya as that's how I did it (froze some until I had enough, I also stored some in my rusty old beer fridge (pulled out all but one shelf) kept ok for a couple of weeks in fact it made them mushy and easier to mash ;-)

[BackyardBrewer]

Well this is odd: one of my 4 fermenters completely failed to fire.

I made a starter of the yeast (EC1118 wine yeast) and split it evenly over all four 22 litre washes. Each wash came from the central batch and was split evenly across the fermenters and all fermenters were sterilized so who knows what happened there.

I had some saf-ale US-05 yeast that so have just pitched that into the rogue fermenter. I read on HD that this is ok for fruit washes so fingers crossed it fires ok.

[invisigoth]

Anyone see any problems with me doing incremental additions of fresh figs to each of the fermenters?
Any thoughts?

in some wine making it's also common to add additional sugar sources later on in the ferment so as not to overwhelm the yeast with too much sugar all at once, unless using a strain that is happy with high osmotic pressure. nigorizake style sake is also made by adding several additions of rice during the fermentation. i think you would have to be vigilant with your hygiene though to avoid infections. your suggestion of surface sulphiting your fruit certainly would help in that respect. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[crow]

just take into account metabisulphate is a common ferment inhibitor used by the wine industry, you'll need to rinse it off if you use it. Personally i wouldn't, if you are adding to a vigorous ferment any bacteria or wild yeast will be very quickly overwhelmed :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[BackyardBrewer]

Yeah I wonder if there was some freak distribution of meta bisulphate in that fermenter?

I will be adding about 500gms of sugar and more fresh figs to each fermenter after work tonight. 3 of the fermenters are churning through the figgage - smells like wine and has a pleasant pinkish hue.