mashing temp control in boilers

[howard]

my neighbour, who did not know that i dabble in distilling, recently told me over the fence.."i'm making whiskey"
i offered to look at his equipment (stop it!) and try and advise him.
he has a 30l boiler with an element, connected to a very small SS liebig (bought off faecesbook)
not too bad for pot stilling.
he has also bought a new vevor still, this type i had not seen before, but also looks workable for potstilling.
https://www.vevor.com.au/alcohol-distiller-c_10688/vevor-50l-alcohol-distill

he had already done a 20L wash which involved putting 10kg of sugar in with turdbo yeast and the usual black clearing shoite.
he then pot stilled it once on full power, discarded to first 50ml, and added a whiskey essence to the rest.
i declined to taste it :-D
on my advice, he has bought a power controller and started to do strip/spirit runs.
i went around during his stripping run to find the vapour overpowering the liebig, which he stopped by using the power controller.
so now i am going to suggest he does a CFW and maybe introduce him to YL and on-grain ferments.

as i have a brewzilla which has good temp control and recirculating arm, mashing at specific temps is easy.
the question is, how do youse lot keep the temp in the 'brewers window' when mashing grains in ........
1) a boiler with internal elements
2) a boiler with a gas burner underneath
or is a all a bit heath robinson?
i know the way you do corn with blankets and stuff, but malted barley/wheat/rye need pretty specific temps to avoid denaturing the natural enzymes.

[chipboy]

Please do introduce him to CFW, its lovely, nice work. A PID with a k type thermocouple, inkbird pid on fleabay and k type ad well, solid state relay to control element, Just ask if you need help..

[howard]

Please do introduce him to CFW, its lovely, nice work. A PID with a k type thermocouple, inkbird pid on fleabay and k type ad well, solid state relay to control element, Just ask if you need help..

i see that inkbird do a complete set.
amazon knockoff like this?
https://www.amazon.com.au/Temperature-Controller-Waterproof-Thermocouple-Applicable/dp/B0D4ZJTQZM/ref=sr_1_33?crid=SAQ2NP169PLR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ppPVCRQcWhptGI6fSFUlqUmfxKOA5C49dwelVTRqLgQI6XcTI-jjQCLWa_td3VWA9U0MI__GzQTufNfmyQ_Gq4v9GVYlxjE_S_RedP54Vqx_SibHqPX0GVbiPyewT5Cs5FnIrGD7HNHlxdpwlrYGiLSR-wyRcTEoo6R6UDtTwn-_GYD6UfNJ0r8GRZSEBnWUrQYXMX142nzmC-35YjKlCorJ26bkUBKn1gP-CMR94SH0VpI6qjyKiYRiADTQ1hRMF0tPWvKJiZy1ovdUYNRF5ADav16eJmIqI_rRhUw17Us.CeaFaokTqKw2oiF9XWl1jqsyZKnnJQpeKWsm-N3wKf0&dib_tag=se&keywords=Inkbird+PID+Temperature+Controller+Kit&qid=1729228434&sprefix=inkbird+pid+temperature+controller+kit%2Caps%2C514&sr=8-33
with an immersible probe like this?
https://www.amazon.com.au/Thermocouple-Thermocouples-Temperature-Measurement-Waterproof/dp/B0CPMF9BZ6

BTW i have a CFW in a 6L barrel for 13 months, it's delicious.
i do put 1.2kg of cornies and a whole packet of ryvita per 20-25l wash.

[chipboy]

That will do it, if you're comfortable with wiring it up.

[chipboy]

When you make the mash tun you will need to get the element socket and a socket for the pid welded on, I woudl recommend a baskt but that is dependent on the boiler size. A large drain will help too. I had temporarily forgotten what I did.

[indenial]

Howard, are you asking how to mash without getting extra gear?
I have a 28L (to the brim) boiler that I use for mashing. It has an internal element and no temp control. Ideally it would be bigger as volumes get tricky for a 23l batch of stronger beer.
"Control" is probably too strong a word for what I do but it works well for single infusion mashes with 100% malt, or a high proportion of malt and adjuncts that don't need gelatinsation. All of the beer I make falls into this category. Many of the whiskey washes (bourbon style) can be problematic.
Basic rundown:
Heat approx 16l of water to about 72degC and switch off element.
Add in nylon grain bag and stir in approx 5kg milled malted barley. Temp drops to 67deg (ish)
Put lid on boiler and wrap in old blanket.
Give it a stir after 30 minutes and re-wrap. (Meanwhile heat another12+litres of water to mash temp on stove or in other boiler)
Temperature usually only drops 1 or 2 degC over the hour.
From this point it would go differently for beer but since you are making whiskey wash:
After 60 minutes you could either cool this down or drain it hot into fermentor to cool.
Once you have drained your initial mash liquid, you can add the other heated water to your boiler. Give it a good stir for 5 minutes to try to extract all those sugars then cool/drain into your fermentor and squeeze as much liquid as you can out of the bag.
For beers that aren't too strong, I get around 90% extraction efficiency (more like 72% brewhouse efficiency from memory). When I try to go for a bigger beer, that efficiency falls away dramatically.
This method will save your neighbour from buying extra gear, but also might encourage him to get something better longer term! I definitely eye off those all-in-one beer systems with envy.

[Reztes-tripler]

I am a tad long after the last toss here..

But I consider myself a "learned beginner" and I run the Vevor SS 22 litre pot still and I have had good results ~ I am only doing sugar washes at the moment and very happy with the results.

I simply use a gas cooker to heat and simply monitor the temperature carefully to stay within the desired range ~ I also charcoal filter my liquor post distilling ~

I have been capturing Methanol up to 150 mil~ as I would much rather take that tad extra and eliminate the bad boyz ~ ( I often also test burn a sample to ensure the Methanol is dispensed ~??)

[howard]

I am a tad long after the last toss here..

But I consider myself a "learned beginner" and I run the Vevor SS 22 litre pot still and I have had good results ~ I am only doing sugar washes at the moment and very happy with the results.

I simply use a gas cooker to heat and simply monitor the temperature carefully to stay within the desired range ~ I also charcoal filter my liquor post distilling ~

I have been capturing Methanol up to 150 mil~ as I would much rather take that tad extra and eliminate the bad boyz ~ ( I often also test burn a sample to ensure the Methanol is dispensed ~??)

i think the test burn is an urban myth, still perpetuated by youtube.
the 150ml is generally fores containing all sorts of things like acetone, ethyl acetate, etc.
there will be little, if any, methanol in a sugar wash to worry about.
read up on the methanol myth.
https://stillntheclear.com/is-methanol-dangerous-in-home-distilling-separating-facts-from-fiction/

[RuddyCrazy]

As this topic is about mash temps in boilers the simple method I use is simply pre-heat the strike water to 74C then dump in the milled grain while my mixer is going flatout, by adding the grain will drop the strike water temp to around 68C then just seal the tun up and let the magic happen :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Now both Woodie and Rob took up this method and got good results so this simple process does work and it does take the myth of mashing grain is too hard for a newbie :laughing-rolling:

So all one needs is a mash tun which can be a 50 litre keg with the top cut out
A 2 ring gas burner to heat the strike water
Now as it has been said on this forum it is real easy to setup an account with Gladfield and I can honestly say why bother trying to malt your own grain when their grain is just so nice.
One will need a 2 roller malt muncher to crush the grain.

So just crush the grain in the malt muncher, heatup the strike water, dump in the grains while mixing and job done :handgestures-thumbupleft:

So while the CFW whisky is a nice drop while learning jumping straight into all grain for newbies is just so easy so guy's as the saying goes Just do it

[slideshowbob]

Would I be able to do a grain mash in a 35L digiboil? Or is it going to be too small?

[RuddyCrazy]

Would I be able to do a grain mash in a 35L digiboil? Or is it going to be too small?

Bob a 35 litre mash would suit nice for a 25 litre fermenter mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[silverbean]

Would I be able to do a grain mash in a 35L digiboil? Or is it going to be too small?

not too small I have done BIAG on similar sized electric without the temp control, I now have the 35L Brewzilla which is a lot easier, I can do max 8Kg grain but the Digiboil 35L with a brew bag could handle up to 7Kg and 25L strike water giving you back 20L and more with sparge. perfect for a 30L fermenter.
For a double batch I do 2 mash on consecutive days, pitch yeast as normal on first day then cool the second lot and pour into the 60L fermenter on top of the already started 1st lot, usually finished 4 days later.

[howard]

Would I be able to do a grain mash in a 35L digiboil? Or is it going to be too small?

the digiboil has no recric arm like the brewzilla, but still possible.
maybe i would buy a $19 false bottom to keep the bag and grains off the elements.
https://kegland.com.au/products/35l-brewzilla-gen-3-1-boiler-false-bottom-grainfather-compatible?_pos=14&_sid=e615bc33e&_ss=r
and use the BIAB method, which involves a lot more water and no sparging.

nb i have fermented off-grain in the digiboil, just using the 500w element set to 30°C.
the 500w element goes around the circumference of the digiboil and didn't scorch.
nb digiboil had a jacket on and the top was insulated.

just had a thought, what would be wrong with mashing in a digiboil using the BIAB method (with false bottom) at 65°C.
after it cools down to 30°C, pitching the yeast.
then just letting the whole thing ferment at 30°C, grains still in the bag.
then when it's finished, just lift the bag and strain.
that sounds too easy :think:

what about using a false bottom, grain in the BIAB bag, water, some YL and set to 30°C.
lift and strain when it's done.
anybody want to buy a brewzilla? :))

[robtes]

My 2c worth FWIW here on heating a mash.

I like the idea of a flat bottomed mash tun boiler ie no immersion heater coils. These coils can become too hot IMO locally and can scorch the wash and build up crud - also difficult to clean, may have to be removed - you guys know all this. I modified a large crock pot. It was a 5L ceramic pot sat in a heating cylinder with element wrapped around the side (no the base). Its control was just a basic bimetallic thermostat - cheap and nasty and this type will bounce your temp up and down +/- 5C or more a desired value of 85C for slow cooking.

So apply so science - I got a simple digital indicator/temp controlled cw with SSR output ca £10 Ebay including probe (workings fine on a 350W load). This will still bounce the temp up and down 5C
So the trick is :teasing-neener: to get one of these digital indicating power power controllers so you can adjust the power from say 95% when starting up then set an alarm to come back and turn your power down to 35-40% when you are near your desired heat say 80C. This will dramatically reduce your temp swing to <1C BUT you will have an offset of ca -5C. This is easily put right by raising your temp controller to plus 5C - and hey presto you have a very stable temp.

You may think this is a bit of a faff but experience with your kit will quickly show what levels to use and they generally dont change IMO (assuming you fill you pot up to ca same level.

Its a lot easier than messing for hours trying to set up a PID controller

Some of you out there may recognise the temp control strategy - its not mickey mouse. It works KISS :dance: