My pot still build ... complete newb, no idea, help wanted.

[Galah]

G'day guys,

After doing a random Google search on moonshine, after watching the movie Lawless (great flick btw), I had the idea to build my own pot still. It didn't look too difficult. Already I realised I bit off a bit more than I can chew. So far it's cost me about $400, which is about $300 more than I was expecting. A lot of that has gone on tools though (blowtorch, drill, holesaw kit, pipe-benders, pipe-cutters), which I'll keep forever, so probably not right to count them into the cost.

I'm not a handyman at all. I'm a web developer by profession. But I'm willing to learn and will need a lot of help. So any advice you guys can offer is much appreciated.

This is the still design that I've come up with. I hope it makes sense. I'm really after advice here.



Just a couple of notes:

- Some of those joins are sealed with plumbers tape instead of permanent solder, just so I can easily dismantle the setup.
- The flange will be bolted down, I just didn't draw the nuts and bolts on the diagram.
- Question: is there any advantage to adding a foot or so of 2" pipe between the flange and the first reducer?
- Question: if instead of using a cork bung, I drill a hole just big enough for the thermometer and solder it in place, will that ruin it (due to the high heat involved?)

This is the condenser coil I made. I bought 1/2" annealed copper from Bunnings and wrapper it around a trailer post:



This is some of my equipment (that's cost a lot!). The drill and holesaw kit, drilling lubricant, etc. that I bought is not pictured:



This is how I plan to construct the head section, as in the diagram. That big blue steel plate came with the flange, but I don't think I'll be using it.



... and this is my first ever ferment bubbling away. It's a simple sugar & All Bran recipe I found on that other forum:



Any advice is very much appreciated.
Vic.

[blond.chap]

Hey mate,

That's a nicely wound coil.

If I can just step back for a moment: Is there a reason you went for the design you did? From what I understand you can run into troubles with the cooling water around the worm condenser heating up too much as the run goes on.

The most common pot still round here is this kind (costs about $150 to build the head):

WP_000032.jpg

If it was me I wouldn't use tape to connect the copper. If you want to be able to dismantle the thing, have a look at stainless unions (like this: http://www.irrigationwarehouse.com.au/prod363.htm).

[Galah]

Cheers mate.

The reason was that it's cheaper and easier (as far as I could tell anyway).

I think with the design of the still, I'll be able to substitute in one of those condensers down the track if need be.

I was sort of thinking of running it up at our property and having water continually syphoning from the dam in and out of the condenser bucket. It would be muddy, warm dam water, but might do the trick. (?).

Either that, or just running cold water in from the water tank and letting the warm water drain out into the bath tub. It's all run on solar power up there anyway. Warm bath after distilling some moonshine. lol.

;)

IF either of those two fail, I'll just have to fill the bucket full of ice until I can afford to, and have the know-how to build a condenser like yours.

P.S. yeah those stainless unions look the go. I'll probably use plumbers tape to start with and upgrade to those things in a week or two.

[bt1]

that's a hell of a lot of hassle with a thumper to get the marginal improvement in output...20 years ago ...sure...now far better options.

A hybrid pot, Boka, VM or even CM would eat a thumper for quality and output with the bloody leaks, lag time and dramas.

Just my opinion but these days why bother...

bt1

[Galah]

Cheers mate.

I have no idea what any of those things are. I'll have to jump on Google.

Edit: my idea to include the thumper was largely because I had guessed it wasn't much hassle. Just another pot with a couple of holes drilled in the lid...

[blond.chap]

IF either of those two fail, I'll just have to fill the bucket full of ice until I can afford to, and have the know-how to build a condenser like yours.
P.S. yeah those stainless unions look the go. I'll probably use plumbers tape to start with and upgrade to those things in a week or two.

I wouldn't be too worried about needing extra know how for that one, I'd never soldered anything before doing it and it was quite simple. Take a look at the DIY kits in the Co-op store here if you're keen ($150 last I checked).

From what I understand about plumbers tape it's intended for use with liquid water. With a vapour solvent like ethanol it seems likely it will leak (happy to be corrected by someone in the know). If you get ethanol vapour leaking out of the joins it is very dangerous, and you can end up with burns like this: http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2865.

At a minimum make sure you do cleaning/test runs (like in this thread http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2863), and watch very carefully for leaks.

[Galah]

Thanks for those links!

Those burns look horrible. Poor bastard!

I originally wanted to use those brass compression connectors from Bunnings to make the temporary connections, but apparently they contain some small amount of lead or something.

I'll have to order some stainless ones from that site you showed me. If I'd thought of it, I would have asked them at Reece plumbing this morning. Might just give them a ring now actually.

[blond.chap]

There's been a lot of discussion about lead in brass fittings here. I'm personally comfortable with the risk of using brass fittings in my stills, as I figure the ethanol cleaning run will remove the majority of the surface lead. I won't say it's definitely safe, but I'm pretty sure you're better off using brass than plumbers tape.

[Galah]

I would have thought the same to be honest.

I don't know shit about it, but my firs though is that when you're distilling stuff, how much of a problem is it going to be anyway? It's not as if you're going to get heavy metals going up in the vapour and being distilled into the end product! But wtf do I know about it? Better to be safe than sorry. That being said, I can't help but think a few brass fittings really aren't going to kill anyone.

Maybe I'll go brass to start with and upgrade to SS. It's just the brass ones are so easily available at Bunnings.

[crow]

sure as can tell ya was on the yanky site first ;-) they love those old skool jobs spect ya thinking of sealing that lid with flour paste :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
No sorry bud that rig will work just dandy, the down sides have been mentioned but if you've started collecting bits I won't talk you out of it, thumpers are ok fella's used them over home yrs ago. Now if you haven't started buying up hold the cheque book for a second and start looking at your options . For a similar amount of work and money you might be able to accomplish better, just thinking for you to want to build this obviously you don't want to start with simple pot, not super keen on hybrid ideas myself seem to be neither ya arse nor ya elbow to me . A thumper is a job specific still but there are designs around that will do the same thing much more efficiently than even multiple thump boxes http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewforum.php?f=36
And loads of ppl here to help ya build it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Like I said if ya started or your heart is set on it go ahead and build it they've been used for a couple of centuries so ya know they work

[Galah]

Cheers crow. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Yeah mate, I've already bought all the shit, made the plan, get the wash fermenting. I think I'll just go with this one for the time being.

Good news is, if I want to build a different one down the track, I'll have all the tools already, and a hell of a lot more experience.

I'm sort of looking at this as a learning experience. So probably best to start simple.

BTW ... how else would I seal the lid but with flour dough?

[Galah]

... as far as the coil condenser goes, will a longer one with more coils make it better?

I was thinking of getting another 3m from Bunning ($16), soldering them together and using a 20L painters pail as the ice-bucket. The finished coil would be 6m and have about 15 turns.

Worth the hassle?

[crow]

ya know just set it up so cold water comes into the bottom of the bucket and hot out the top and that size will work, lot of blokes have huge arse worms so as not to use an extra water ;-)
But there are ways round that if ya worried about water, got a tank or pool?

[Galah]

ya know just set it up so cold water comes into the bottom of the bucket and hot out the top and that size will work, lot of blokes have huge arse worms so as not to use an extra water ;-)
But there are ways round that if ya worried about water, got a tank or pool?

Yeah no worries. Tank and dam. ;)

[bt1]

I'm a huge fan of hybrid pots as you no doubt have guessed.

They offer a single run solution rather than stripping and spirit runs for the avg builder. Think about your ongoing costs and time needed for a tick...you might be surprised. Nothing worse that boredom....

They'll peak in the mid 90's abv like any LM/VM / Boka and hang around in the mid to low 80's without issue.

Where your wanting a good flavour carry over like a AG, AG/Sugar whisky, irish, rum or gin it's ideal.

They're simple to build, low cost and offer something you won't see on to many VM/Boka's/CM...decent output rates.

At the end of the day you'll build what your heart's set on.. Good news...You'll have plenty of time to enjoy contemplating what if ?...

bt1

[Cane Toad]

Go ahead and build it mate :handgestures-thumbupleft: that's what this hobby is all about,among other things of course :laughing-rolling: but I'll bet my left nut that this will not be your last build :laughing-rolling: this is a very addictive hobby,you'll do more reading and come up with more ideas,some of these ideas may even involve the still that you are about to construct,bit of tinkering here a bit there,just enjoy the ride mate :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[bluess57]

Have you got the stockpots already?
I was going to adventure down a similar path, until I saw price of SS stockpots - oh and joining this forum and getting the best advice -> beer keg.

[Galah]

There's been a lot of discussion about lead in brass fittings here. I'm personally comfortable with the risk of using brass fittings in my stills, as I figure the ethanol cleaning run will remove the majority of the surface lead. I won't say it's definitely safe, but I'm pretty sure you're better off using brass than plumbers tape.

I went to Bunnings this evening and asked about the brass compression fittings. I asked if he had stainless, this is how the conversation went:

"I need stainless because those are coated with lead".
"Who told you that?"
"The blokes on the Internet"
"They are definitely don't have lead in them"
"No, but I think they're coated with lead or something"
"No way mate. I'm a registered plumber. No way they are coated with lead, it's against the law to use any lead at all".
"Are they air tight?"
"Maybe. I can guarantee they're water tight. They might be air tight."

Make of that what you will.

As a side-note, this soldering business isn't as easy as it looks on YouTube. Bloody hell. I'll have another crack at it over the weekend in better light. The silver solder they sold me at Reece plumbing just doesn't melt. I got some softer no-lead stuff from Bunnings which melts a bit easier, but it's still bloody hard to manage. The joints I made broke already.

[Lowndsey]

I went to Bunnings this evening and asked about the brass compression fittings. I asked if he had stainless, this is how the conversation went:

"I need stainless because those are coated with lead".
"Who told you that?"
"The blokes on the Internet"
"They are definitely don't have lead in them"
"No, but I think they're coated with lead or something"
"No way mate. I'm a registered plumber.

Bunnings lol. Ever wonder why all these so called tradesmen work at a hardware store when they can make 10 times the money plying their trade? I once took a 20 dollar can pf half empty spray paint back to Buninngs cause the fucker clogged up while painting my kids bike. The so called Trade qualified painter looked it up and down and then accused me of not shaking it up and mixing it before using it, because the bottom of the can had no dents in it from the little marble rattling around. I told him I have painted more shit with spray paint then he has dropped turds in the toilet bowl. I then asked him to shake the fucker up and show me how the marble should dent the can. After 10 minutes of the idiot standing there shaking it having an epileptic fit and still not a dented can to be seen he escorted me to the front counter to arrange for a replacement can...still no apology though. Mate of mine used to work in the garden center at Bunnings ...he had never turned a fuckin garden hose on in his life much less planted a seed...the only plant watering he used to do is pissing in the old girls pot plants after a night out on the turps...yet the picture of him on the wall at Bunnings say he is a "garden Expert" hahaha Bunnings ..fuck me.

[blond.chap]

"They are definitely don't have lead in them"
"No, but I think they're coated with lead or something"
"No way mate. I'm a registered plumber. No way they are coated with lead, it's against the law to use any lead at all".
"Are they air tight?"
"Maybe. I can guarantee they're water tight. They might be air tight."

I was told by a guy at bunnings that solder labelled "Pb/Sn 50/50" was lead free and food safe. Bloody moron.

As a side-note, this soldering business isn't as easy as it looks on YouTube. Bloody hell. I'll have another crack at it over the weekend in better light. The silver solder they sold me at Reece plumbing just doesn't melt. I got some softer no-lead stuff from Bunnings which melts a bit easier, but it's still bloody hard to manage. The joints I made broke already.

I forgot to say earlier, the "solder" you have in the picture is silver brazing alloy (confusingly also called hard solder), it needs Mapp or oxy acetylene to melt (you've got butane).

I use either Aquasafe soft solder (made by consolidated alloys), it's kept in the section near the brass fittings. Have a look here for some tips on soft soldering:
http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2931

A bit of practice and you'll be fine.