Help needed in running my new 5SD still

[pistagain]

Hi all
Several months ago I purchased a 5SD still as follows. A 4”pot still plus a 4” 500ml packed section and an RC thinking that this would give me the capacity to do both stripping and spirit runs. I should point out that my current interest is making a pure spirit that I can make gin from. The problem is that I am unable to get a decent % of ABV from the reflux set up. The best I am managing is about 86% ABV, and this drops fairly quickly to low eighties, but to make matters even worse the product seems to go straight from heads to tails with no discernible hearts.

I always strip my wash before charging the boiler (a 50lt keg with a 2100w heater) with 45l of 40% ABV low wines. I have tried 2 methods of running the reflux still.
1. ALA Mac’s method of running a plated column, viz., running at max power, slowly run Fores by maintaining almost full reflux and then adjusting RC flow until approx. toothpick size product flow, i.e., 2 -2.5 litres per hour.
2. Start with power controller set at about half and adjust RC flow until product just starts to drip out and then increase power until desired flow rate is achieved.

Both these methods produced the same dismal results. In my frustration I reran my last effort through my trusty Keg Land 2” column and achieved 93% ABV with very discernible hearts (albeit at a much slower rate).

So can anyone advise me please of what I am doing wrong (I have also checked for leaks but can’t find any).
I have attached photos of the set up in case there is an obvious mistake in my assembly.
Also, does anyone else have difficulty in getting their parrot vertical when still is upright?
Cheers

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[Wellsy]

Hello Pista
When i ran my 5star pot still the best i ever got was about 80 % abv that dropped slowly over time. What take off rate are you using when run the spirit run. i always ran mine at 2 litres an hour for my 4 inch pot still with no issues finding the cuts.
I never tried it with a rc and i am not sure whether sticking an RC on a pot still with some packing turns it into a reflux still. I can only recommend the pot still for giving awesome flavour.
I do have the 4 inch plated still but that is a different configuration to the pot still. I can only think you might be running it to quick if you can not pick the cutoff points. Or you are not giving the angels enough time to help you find those points.
Sorry I cant offer you more suggestions

[The Stig]

What and how much packing are you running ?
How fast are you running ? L/H
5 Star don’t make 2100w elements , can you confirm the elements ?
As for the parrot , undo the clamps all the way around the still a few turns and pull the parrot out , tighten the clamps a little and pull , tighten and pull , get the idea ? The parrots are usually fine but sometimes the seals just need a “tug” so the parrot sits vertical

[MattSmith]

That’s almost my exact setup. Been running it since February and it easily sits at 93-95.

My method. After stripping whatever wash I’m doing (no flow to the RC, one roll of packing in packed section) I fill the boiler for a spirit run. For a neutral I’ll fill the packed section. For me this is 1kg of copper SPP on top of the original roll plus 2 more rolls of copper mesh. That fills the 500mm section.

Then I’ll run almost max flow through the RC & use the controller to “power through it” for fores. Then I just make cuts and adjust the power to maintain the flow (slow) that I want. Make sure to drain the parrot after the fores.

With one element you may need to reduce the RC flow if you get to max power and the flow stops.

[pistagain]

Thanks to those who have responded so far.

Wellsy, I don't have a problem running in pot still mode when doing stripping runs but don't get much better when I add the packed column and RC. I feel that this should not be the case. As stated above, I run at about 2 - 2.5l per hour and there is no noticeable difference at either end of that range.

Stig, I'm using the packing provided with and for the still which is, I believe, 1kg of copper mesh. In any case it fills the column.
As mentioned above I am running at 2 - 2.5l per hour with no appreciable difference in ABV % at either end of that range.
The element is a 2200w stainless steel heating element (my mistake in calling it a 2100w element in the original post) that I fitted to a 50l keg.
Thanks for the tip on the parrot - I'll give it a go before my next run.

MattSmith, Your method appears to be similar to mine. On occasion, after not getting the result I wanted, I have messed around with various heating and RC flows without success. I know this is not recommended (as Mac said, messing with the RC flow is sure to ruin one's day) however I figured I had by that stage I had nothing to lose. No combination of power and RC flow made any positive difference. I have even stopped and put the still in full reflux for 15 - 20 minutes on occasions during the run. :sad:

The only thing I can think of is that the 2200w is not enough power, however I manage to get output, just not high ABV, so I don't see how this could effect things. I am also wondering if the 4" to 2" reducer on the still, allowing me to attach to the 2" opening on the keg, has anything to do with it. But once again, I am getting product flow.

[MattSmith]

1kg of mesh shouldn’t fill a 500mm packed section. Take it out and roll it tighter. I only get 2 tightly fitting rolls out of 1kg

[pistagain]

1kg of mesh shouldn’t fill a 500mm packed section. Take it out and roll it tighter. I only get 2 tightly fitting rolls out of 1kg

Matt, I can't remember the exact amount of copper mesh used, only that it was the amount recommended by 5 Star and that the rolls provided completely filled the column and are a tight fit.

[The Stig]

So the packing (4 x 500g Rolls - I checked invoice) is correct, did you just slip them in as rolls or did you undo them and pock the mesh in willy-nilly ?
Running at 2.5L/H is too fast, thats how a 5 plate with packed section will run, try slowing down to around 1.5L/H
Hold full reflux after heat up, drop power , reduce water flow to the RC so you just get a few drops coming out the bottom of the parrot then start to turn up the power till you get the 1.5L/H
See how that goes.
A second element would help and allow more refluxing by allowing more heat and more water to the RC

[pistagain]

Stig, re the mesh rolls, I unwound them and washed and rinsed them, rerolled and inserted them in the column. I'll give your method a try but 1.5l per hour is about what I run the 2" column at and one of the reasons behind the 4" purchase was the expectation that I could run a little faster. Nonetheless I agree that it is worth a try running the 4" at 1.5l. That will at least inform me whether running too fast is the source of my problem.
Cheers

[pistagain]

PS Unfortunately I currently only have a 10 amp power source so a second heating element is not possible.

[The Stig]

I’ll let bigger brains explain the need for more heat to creat more refluxing and allowing to run faster

[harold01]

PS Unfortunately I currently only have a 10 amp power source so a second heating element is not possible.

throw a gas ring under it for extra oomf

[pistagain]

Not a bad idea except I've always been wary of introducing a naked flame into the distilling process.

[harold01]

gas wont be a problem if you don't have any vapor leaks, plenty of guys on the forum use gas

[pistagain]

Just wondering if adding extra packing to the 4 X 2 reducer (used to attach still to the boiler) would increase my reflux capacity?

[The Stig]

No it won’t

[pistagain]

Just an update on the above. Yesterday I ran 45lts of low wines through my reflux still (after stripping it). I ended up with a very reasonable 92% ABV and a quality product. However, in order to get that result I had to run it at 1lt per hour. I started at 8:00 am and finished at 1:00 am and even then I only shut it down when the tails started to appear. I was running at full power (2200 watts) with the RC flow adjusted accordingly. At least I think I have sorted the source of my original problem - not enough power. I see a 15 amp power source installation in my future which, I believe, will allow me use up to 3600 watts of power. Thanks to all who responded with advice.

[Golly]

Hi Pistagain,
I also have a 4inch column, 1x500ml packed section, and another few plates. I was getting close to Azeo but not quite because I was running it too fast. I made an additional purchase of another 500ml packed section. So now 1m packed with SS scrubbies, and two plates just for fun. Taste has improved, hitting azeo all those things - and, more importantly for me, its SO much easier to hit that sweet spot between refluxing the vapour back down and a slow take-off.

I do NOT run it using the 3600W of power though. In fact, recently i've been using my Brewzilla, and its sitting on 2000W for most of the run. The 3600W would be great for your stripping runs, but I dont recommend it for good neutral. If you have the ceiling height, try to get another packed section. It will make a whole world of difference and you wont be in the shed until 1am

In terms of time, i charged the boiler with 60L of stripped neutral - hitting azeo the whole time, then i just started stripping the balance at 4pm because my wife gets home at 5:30 and I wanted to have the garage clear for her - it was still at like 92% at 4pm - and took over an hour to strip down to 40%. So not a super fast run, but way better than your currently achieving.

Good luck!

[pistagain]

Thanks for the advice Golly. I don't have the ceiling height for another 500m pipe but i could probably do a 250m. Might give that a go and see how I go. Don't see how that will make the run any faster though, even if it does improve quality.
Cheers