proposed vapour management column

[bradsgonetrekkin]

I've almost got all the bits now to finally start putting this thing together so thought I'd start posting instead of lurking. Apart from the cash to get all the bits my progress has been further slowed as I now have a broken ankle courtesy of a belated return to playing rugby after 5 years and a fat prop who landed on it the wrong way...

After playing with a cooling management still to start with and researching the forums on various still designs I decided to build my own vm and pot still heads to be interchangable on my old 18 gallon ss keg boiler. I've read heaps but don't have much practical experience in the actual metalworking, fitting and joining part of the still building process so please excuse me if I ask dumb questions and am a bit rough with my finishes...

The column will be around 1600mm from the 2 inch ss keg ferrule connection to the valve offtake, and will be around 2m from the keg to top of condensor head, around 2600mm total hieght above the floor.

I have mainly used copper pipe sections that I got from the local scrapyard. The main column has around 800mm of 2.5 inch pipe, then the rest is 2 inch copper. I will also have to incorporate a joiner in 50mm as the scrappie had already cut up the pipes before I retrieved them... I still need to get a 50mm tee join for the valve branch line but you can get the jist from the pics where I'm heading.

The reflux condensor will be around 200-250mm long double 1/4 inch coil (once I master the coil winding thing).

The valve branch will be 50mm reduced to 32mm close to the main column, into a 32mm (1 1/4 inch) ss fullbore ball valve, then drop down via a 90 degree bend to a 3/4 reducer and ss ferrule. The plan is to also have the liebig interchangable with the pot head via a 3/4 triclamp connection.

At this stage I think I'll due a 3/4 over 1/2 inch leibig, not sure on the exact length yet. My current element is 2200 watt, soon to be upgraded to 2400w.

I'll keep y'all posted on how it develops.

[R-sole]

I don't think you're going to be happy with the adjustability of that big ball valve. A gate valve is more expensive, but we need to crack it to a couple drips a second in vm when bleeding heads.
Hard to do when it's just vapour.

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Yeah 5Star I wasn't sure on the gate/globe v ball valve thing. In the end I ended up getting all my stainless bits from the one place at Midway metals when I did a trip to Newcastle recently. If they stocked the other type I would've gone that way but ended up just going with what they had available, which was ball valves, and 32mm to suit the pipe size I had.

They also have a crap returns policy where they are supposed to charge a min $100 fee to swap or refund. I found this out after I stuffed up on the ferrule and triclamp size needed (I got 2.5 inch instead of 2 inch for the keg connections). After a massive winge I did get them too do a swap for me at no charge but I don't really want to go back again for a while :oops:

I researched your designs too, so using your "cut in half hex nipple" each end of the valve connection I'll hopefully be able to remove the valve down the track without too much hassle if it proves too fiddly to adjust.

[R-sole]

I researched your designs too

You mean you enlarged the piccies and figured out my inovations :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

did you also pick the sizeing change


Well done. There's a lot of fittings that we take for granted in brass that are just not made in stainless. 8-)

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Heres a few pics of the vm column the plumber soldered up for me yesterday.

Its around 1.6m to the take off tee and a bit over 2.6m high overall. Im tall enough to reach up and adjust the ball valve and turn on the thermometer ok, but lucky theres no ceiling lining in the garage!! :whistle:

Looking forward to getting her fired up soon!! :dance:

[MacStill]

You're well set up now for some serious stilling now you've got the complete setup, and everything you've put together looks top notch :dance:

Hope you've got plenty fermenting :mrgreen:

Well done!

[stubbydrainer]

way to go BGT
You'll keep ya fermenters busy now :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[QLD.Andy]

did you also pick the sizeing change

For those of you with bad eye's, here is what 5Star said in small writing:

did you also pick the sizeing change

[bradsgonetrekkin]

jeeze I missed that bit 5Star!! Nope I didn't.

Yes its been a long time coming but I'm finally getting my shit together!! They say good things come to those who wait...

I've got the 200litre drum which will be filled with wash as soon as the keg gets wired in and tested and the stills are checked for leaks during the vinegar run.

I want to get cracking with some neutral real soon. Plan is to get the stocks up so I can do a few big batches of coffee liquour and some punkins muck style recipes for the chrissy break.

Then its back to uncle jesses corn with a bit of malted barley added to the mix with the pot still, then experiment with pot stilling and refluxing a few of these rum recipes..... 8-)

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Did the alcohol test run this arvo.

All went pretty good. She got to 94 - 95% with ss scrubbers and no centering devices.

Only teething issues were: -
- the column flooded distillate out of the temp socket while I was trying to satbilise the column with valve off after the coolant had only been on for 20mins or so (temp approx 76 degrees c at time). I was planning on equalising the column for an hour before I cracked open the valve but ended up opening it a bit as soon as I noticed the liquid coming out.
- 20 mins later the column flooded again with liquid coming out the top of the column (around 77 degrees c) :puke-huge: . Seemed to stop when I cracked open the valve a bit more again and loosened the cap a bit on top
- but then I had a surge of output through my parrot and overflowed alcohol all over the bench. :( .... .Have these things happened to anyone elses vm setups?
I had a pretty good flow of water going through the coil at the time which I thought would knock down the 2400 watts of heat ok..Note I don't have a controller its just on or off with the heat at this stage.

Things seemed to settle down the longer the still was running.

The junkahol I used for the vm and pot trial runs was mainly heads and tails from old runs, man that stuff was rank, especially the tails...

[Al Qaemist]

The 2200-2400w is perfect for the 2.5" column. Strange with the flooding, what was the take-off rate when you opened the valve right up - should have been pissing out - could you have a restriction somewhere preventing the reflux draining to the boiler?

I use a handful of copper bits in the boiler connection when stripping as I run a stainless rig - it helps removing the sulfur smells. I forgot to remove them when putting the column on - my output was only a few hundred mls/min then the column flooded before I clicked as to what was wrong.

[bradsgonetrekkin]

I dont think there was any restrictions in the column, only thing I can think of was maybe the scrubbers were packed in a bit tight? I could still blow through the packed column though so I thought that would be ok..

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Got a few tips from the AD crowd, reduced the density of my packing and also left around 100mm free space unpacked at the bottom of the column.

Still leaves around 1.5m of packing to the take off arm. Should sort out the flooding issues now.

Been stripping some neutral wash over the past few days. I added around 1 teaspoon per litre sodium carbonate to the low wines.

From go to wo 7 hours 10 mins for 70 litre run and just under 8 hours for the 74 litre runs with my pot head for the strips. Ive got around 33 litres @ 50% plus around 20 litres of 11.8% wash (I couldn't be arsed stripping) to put through the column in the next few days. I think it will be a long day, but will have a pretty good stash of vodka for a while 8-)

I'm guessing around 2 hours boiler heat up time, any guesses for total time to run through the column? :?:

[R-sole]

Basing it off a 2" column, you'll have your 2 hours heat up (should be a bit less being stronger), 1 hr stabilization, 2 hours bleeding foreshots and then heads and then you'll pull product at about 1.2l/h.

You should have about 18l of 100% in your boiler, so assuming heads at 3l or less and tails at less than 1l, you'll take 12-14 hours to pull hearts and another hour to pull tails and clean up.

So;

2 + 1 + 2 + 13 + 1 = 19 hours

Don't forget to get up early :lol:

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Holy crap, I was guessing around 10-12 hours...

[R-sole]

You can trim that down a bit too, it may run a little faster than 1.2 with the 65mm section. you can stabilise for 1/2hr and bleed foreshots slow and speed up a little bit for heads (broken stream) as long as head temp stays stable. You can charge the boiler and setup the still the night before ready for an early start....

You can not bother pulling tails and clean up next day.


Just gotta suck it and see

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Filled up still and set up head, cooling lines etc last night.

Started still around 6 this morning. Switched off about 915pm tonight. Bloody long day!!!! Couldn't be bothered cleaning up tonight, on the to do list for tomorrow.

Could have probably got a few more litres but temp spiked a few degrees and alc output dropped a few degrees and I was over it so I switched off with 19 or 20 x 750ml bottles of 94-96% :thumbup:

Airing out with caps off in shed tonight, will see how the cuts go tomorrow sometime.

Compared to a cooling management setup, I'd have to say the vapour management column stills are pretty user friendly and can definitely achieve results..

PS - Anyone about to do a big spirit run take the experts advice and start EARLY!!!!

[eminiM]

Taking heads off the nite before is a big help. Your output volume is pretty low for that column. You should be approaching 3 liters per hour for 75% of the hearts collection. A little fine tuning is in order, also sounds like you're having trouble hitting the magic #95............

You are running low wines and not wash, right?

[R-sole]

Taking heads off the nite before is a big help. Your output volume is pretty low for that column. You should be approaching 3 liters per hour for 75% of the hearts collection. A little fine tuning is in order, also sounds like you're having trouble hitting the magic #95............

You are running low wines and not wash, right?

If i remember correctly it's only partly made with 2.5" and the rest of the column is only 2", Mini.


I think the 2" section is going to be limiting the output.

[R-sole]

Also, the temp should never get to spike few degrees. Once it goes up .1 or .2 of a degree, it's time to wind the valve in and restrict the flow so it stabilises again. Sounds like you had varied abv and that says to me that you may have been collecting too fast for your heat input.