Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Dazzler279 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:52 pm

Need some help guys. Never had any problems before with TPW. I've run dozens of 25l washes. This is a first.
Put down a batch on 22/7:
6kg sugar
80g Lowans
half shot fake lemon juice
two small tubs (280g) no salt leggos t/paste
This is the recipe I have used for almost 5 years.

Bubbled nicely for a week/8 days. At night after the fourth day I'd turn the heater blanket on to maintain temp. Bubbling stopped by 31st (9 days). Moved onto a bench top to settle. Dropped the hydrometer in and the reading is completely off. See attached. Since the reading I've given it a good stir and there doesn't seem to be much going on.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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Last edited by Dazzler279 on Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby RC Al » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:29 pm

If what your doing has worked fine for that long, I dare say your local council has just put a shot of chlorine through the water system, have you looked at your ph at all? I dare say an adjustment will get it bubbling away again, you may need to repitch some yeast, you may not

Thats wayyy to much tomato paste, in a 25l you really only need 100g or so, the excess paste wont be doing anything for you other than increasing the acidity of the wash and making the produced spirit more tomato flavoured. Its only there as nutrients for the yeast, the one tub is heaps.

6kg is pushing the yeast a bit, you might get some better results from bumping it up to say 100 or 120g of yeast - will ferment out a bit faster with the boost. Or just use 5kg of sugar to help reduce any off flavours the yeast may be giving you
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby RuddyCrazy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:40 pm

As a general rule with all my ferments I simply chuck in a oyster shell and just let something natural to balance the ph in a ferment.

Cheers Bryan
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Dazzler279 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:45 pm

Thanks RC Al.

I'll get some pH paper tomorrow. If you think it might be chlorine wouldn't it have dissipated after a week? And why did it go so well at the start? Any ideas?

Less T/paste: Noted. I knew it was a little high and my newest batch has 200g as per original recipe.
Less Sugar: Also noted. I have changed the current batch to 5kg

If anyone else can shed more light on this, I'd appreciate it.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby RC Al » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:19 pm

Some councils have started using trichlor (yes same stuff as pool tablets - yuck, we have to buy water in occasionally and its hit with that stuff - again yuck), its got a binder in it that slows the dissipation right down.
Also its actually sunlight that breaks chlorine down, generally not something in abundance inside your fermenter

If the ph was on the edge to start with and then the wash gets more acid as it progresses - your straight into the territory of where the yeast is unhappy
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Chriss » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:26 pm

We were scratching our heads wondering why two TPW washes slowed down and stopped. Except giving it a agitation session to kick start the yeast again in June and July 2020.

Indeed pH is important. One currently fermenting batch is pH 2.5 and the other current batch is pH 2.0. We switched water supply from Brisbane to Sunshine Coast. Interesting enough Sunshine Coast water is pH 6.4 to 7.5 depending on the day and how one treats it. Where Brisbane tap water at another property is poor, pH 5.5 or bloody acidic tap water, dirty and rusty.

Will any crustacean shell do the trick to balance the pH level?
Can baking soda be used or will it produce off flavour tones?
And what is the pH range TWP likes for winter and summer?

For those not in the know. costco sells 25kg sugar for under $20. We have been using it for more then ten batches, 100% sugar compared to CSR and other brands.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby howard » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:00 am

my first TPW was started on 17th july, OG 1070
all the recommended ingredients.
maybe didn't aerate it enough?
only had the fridge at 20C due to other stuff in there.
no airlock action at all.
day 3 cranked the temp up to 30C, give it a good stir, lots of fizzing.
still no airlock action at all.
day 9 SG was 992, so it was slowly getting there.
just left it for another few days, got to about 990.
transferred it to a 20L cube + 1 x 2L bottle.
it's going to be my sac run when the still arrives.
strange no airlock action, newish fermenter, filtered water, constant temps,tandaco yeast
have bought lowans for the next, which will be a FFV
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby EziTasting » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:47 am

When you start off you live and die by airlock activity until you realize that a simple leak or lack of perfect seal on the FV gives you just that - No airlock activity...
Go by the hydrometer every time and you won’t go wrong.... I don’t even use airlocks anymore...
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby RC Al » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:27 am

:text-+1: on the air locks

With SG's there's the train of thought that for neutral, getting to .990 is a waste of time and is only including more undesirable tastes as the yeast produces the last 1-2% - if you started at 1.060/70 and are close to 1.000, run it, you waste a bit of sugar, but you get a better tasting product - sugar is cheap vs time and taste is priceless

EDIT You are then of course running a "dirty" wash, its harder to remove esters than some tomato & yeast particles in my opinion
Last edited by RC Al on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Chriss » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:42 pm

Forged ahead, now we have three running fermenters.
Large batch is 180L approximately in a 200L plastic drum. Felt like making a wash for the first time.

We might of got the ratios and readings wrong, however at 42kg of sugar, start SG = 1070 and pH 2.8
With the drum been double walled, it is expected to keep the heat in, and on thick blocks on wood to stop the range of concrete temperature. (like keeping your car batteries on wood, not concrete)
Yeasty situation, my gosh, adding the wash ingredients with the yeast hydration, man I have never seen it grow that quick and large. Yeast everywhere :)
Added a airlock, however after reading many posts it might not be that important.
Once we get the final results, hopefully in two weeks, we expect to add two more of the 200l fermenters and go bananas. :angry-banghead: :teasing-tease:

Err we also picked up some 20l metal drums (cooking oil) but they easily rust exposed to the elements.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Tesla101 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:34 pm

Wow chriss, 180L wash and another 2 x 200L - you're going to spending a LOT of time watching a T500 trickle that out :o

I think the pH is a little on the low side at 2.8. Not only might the ferment stall due to yeast stress, it will bring over more unwanted flavours. For a neutral I'd shoot for around 5.0
Last edited by Tesla101 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby bluc » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:15 pm

Could be bacterial infection causing crash. Brett infection I think does it. Good clean and sanitize fixed it for me no issues for nearly a year after using star san..
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Micky_ashman » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:15 pm

Hey guys just put down my first tpw wash. I got a fridge with a temp control for fermentation. I've been letting the turbo keep its own heat. Just wondering with lowans instant dried will I have to get a heat source? Is it roughly 6-12hours before signs of fermentation cheers in advance
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Bodgy » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:43 am

I keep my TPW fermenters with lowans yeast in the utility closet on top of the hot water system, its about 24 degrees in there. I hydrate the yeast in the TPW wash in a jar till its nice and foamy (maybe 30 mins) then I pitch it. Its active and the airlock is bubbling away rapidly within an hour. Usually ferments out in around a week.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Dazzler279 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:26 am

OK I see a few posts stating the desirable pH. Buggered if I can find one that says HOW to change the pH if it's out of whack. Cheers in advance.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby scythe » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:58 am

Search for pH buffers on this forum.
Avoid bi-carb soda as it adds a taste that some don't want.
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby Chriss » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:28 am

Thank you for the replies.

We collected some oysters shells while beach metal detecting last weekend and will crush them. To the big batches!
Yeah the T500 is our little toy. 2x 180l TPW's going (BBB#18 and BLB#19). Hmm that will be a few runs...
On ebay the same t500 kit we purchased last year is now above $1000. What the heck?

We found a three pack 3x2.55kg net of Italian diced tomatoes for $10.50 or so from the yanks membership store. Blend em. To the big batches!
Back yard tomatoes are ripe, we'll make a sauce. To the big batches!
The germans have a four caster wheel dolly for $20 rated to approx. 210kg, yet wesfarmers have them for $15 ish. We are moving the drums outside as the internal temperature is too low, yet they are producing lots of gases.

I am going to commence a vinegar boil in between each run. Knock out some of those foul odours and tastes.

Happy distilling everybody
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby dans.brew » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:05 pm

Chriss wrote:The germans have a four caster wheel dolly for $20 rated to approx. 210kg, yet wesfarmers have them for $15 ish.

Got a couple of them german dollys the other day.. work great for 100ltr fermenters :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby northerner » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:39 pm

Hi all,

Just working my through my first TPW wash (well, pretty much first wash ever) and just wanted to check I am looking ok.

OG was 1.078 (1.082 temp adjusted). I am on day 9 (8 days from starting) and have kept temp in the low-mid 20's, currently sat at 26.
Current reading is 0.992 (temp adjusted 0.994)

Does this sound about right? I'm thinking another day or two then let it sit before running? Any advice on how long to sit it, or does that not really matter too much?

Thanks
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Re: Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

Postby dans.brew » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:53 pm

northerner wrote:Hi all,

Just working my through my first TPW wash (well, pretty much first wash ever) and just wanted to check I am looking ok.

OG was 1.078 (1.082 temp adjusted). I am on day 9 (8 days from starting) and have kept temp in the low-mid 20's, currently sat at 26.
Current reading is 0.992 (temp adjusted 0.994)

Does this sound about right? I'm thinking another day or two then let it sit before running? Any advice on how long to sit it, or does that not really matter too much?

Thanks

Sounds pretty right. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Id say its about done.. you'll find the wash will clear up to a pink colored liquid and the cloudiness should clear up once done.
Once it gets to this point which is about a week then its right to run.
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